Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 29 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: Coil tap mod (Squier Esprit)
I added a coil tap on both pick-ups on the weekend. Also added a 0.001 microfarad capacitor on each volume pot to get 'treble-bleed' effect. I have done this mod before and (to my ears) it does provide a useable improvement, keeping sound brighter as the volume is backed off.
Coil tap mod is great. I really like the tapped sound on the bridge pup. Not sure how niosy it will be at gigging levels yet. The screening in the control cavities is very comprehensive from the factory on this guitar, so hopefully noise shouldn't be too much of a barrier.
I noticed from the original Fender Esprit scheme posted recently that the volume pots are rated at 1M, not 500K (which is more usual for humbuckers, and which is what is installed in my guitar). I read somewhere that higher ratings tend to brighten the sound. Occurs to me that maybe a 1M pot may brighten the sound a little. I'm going to try this before jumping into the expense of a new pick-up.
Overall still really happy with this guitar. I like the feel and all the sounds, especially the mid position. Just not quite there with the bridge pup. I'm just trying to tweak to get the best for my ears and I'm absolutley sure I'll get there.
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Bozeman, MT
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:46 am Post subject:
Bluelobster: I'm still not sure about the pups. To my ears, it just sounds very dark compared to my other guitars, and that would require some quick EQing every time I pick it up. I might try Chalky's suggestion about going up to the 1M tone pot before changing pups, though. Actually, that old Esprit wiring schematic shows a 1M/250k-ohm "dual pot". Being a wiring idiot, I'm not clear what exactly the dual pot accomplishes. Plus it has 2 separate resistors in line. Can someone clue me in as to what that's about?
I'm having second thoughts about putting the two Rio Grande pickups in this guitar, because several user reviews noted that the RG BBQ was a very full, "dark" sounding pup. That might not be a wise choice in the Esprit.
I'm guessing that the internal chambers are a major factor in the tonal depth of this guitar. Having never owned a chambered guitar before, I really don't know what they contribute to the tone. Anyone?
Later,
Bert
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 29 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: Pots and chambers
The posts 1M/250Kohm pots in the schematic are the tone pots. They are still a variable resistor like the volume pots. I believe that the resistors and capacitors are used to change the function of the pot into a tone filter, and to define how it affects the tone. The volume pots are the 1 M ohm pots shown above the tone pots in the schematic. I'm no electronics expert. I'm not sure what the functionality of these particular dual pots is. Hopefully someone with a real Esprit will have the answer to that one. However, I assume that with the tone pots fully up, they should make little difference to the 'wide open' tone of the guitar. I guess the easiest way to check is to take the tone pots out of circuit for a comparison test. Pretty easy to check with a soldering iron. I really also have no idea what to expect with a 1 M ohm volume pot, but it's a pretty cheap thing to try out, so I am going to do it.
As to the tone chambers, I believe that these mainly affect the midrange character of the sound. I certainly agree with other previous posts here that we can't expect the Squier Esprit to sound like the original Fender version as these are a single timber (Mahogany) guitar with no brighter wood for the top.
Andy
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Bozeman, MT
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject:
Thanks, Andy! I didn't catch that you were referring to changing out your volume pots rather than the tone pots. It would be interesting to know what the dual tone pots do though, wouldn't it? I don't believe I've run across those before.
Bert
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Bozeman, MT
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject:
OK, I got the answer. The Elite had the Fender TBX tone controls. Here's the blurb from GuitarElectronics.com (who apparently sells these pots, but they're currently out of stock):
Some Fender guitars come equipped with a special pot called a TBX Tone Control T (treble) B (bass) X (Cut) that cuts either treble or bass instead of a tone pot that cuts treble frequencies only. This is done with a ganged 500K-1M ohm control pot that is wired to work as a low-pass filter in one direction and a high-pass filter in the opposite direction. A center detent in the middle position is provided for the off or "flat" position. Although Fender altered their Start tone configuration to have the TBX control the middle and bridge pickups, it can be also be wired as a master treble/bass control. The TBX can also be used in place of any standard tone control on any guitar.
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 234 Location: Hartlepool, U.K.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:42 am Post subject:
I have used 1Mb pots on my Strat and Tele and they do indeed give a brighter, cleaner sound. However, I discovered that the effectiveness of 1Mb pots depends on the amp you're using. Using them with my Music Man 210 65W (hybrid valve\tranny) really improved the overall clarity\articulation of the sound, but the same guitars sounded thin and lacking in sustain through my Peavey Classic 50 (class A all valve) and so I took the 1Mb pots out and put the 250K ones back in. Naturally, humbuckers normally use 500K pots, and so my experiences relate to jumping up two steps from the usual 250K pots on single-coiled guitars ... If you follow what I'm saying. However, going back to the norm, I have a full, rounded out sound with both guitars. I might add that putting 11s on my Strat significantly improved the sound quality. It has a more SRV sound to it now.
Just my 2p ... _________________ "Creativeness often consists of merely turning up what is already there. Did you know that right and left shoes were only thought up a little more than a century ago?" - Bernice Fitz-Gibbon 1894-1982
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 29 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:08 am Post subject:
Thanks for the info. The TBX explanation makes sense (although as a non-electrical type, I don't understand how it works). Thanks also for the info on 250k vs 1M ohm pots. I'm definitely going to try this, hopefully in the next couple of weeks. I will let you know how it works out. Like Stratoskier, I can get a sound I'm quite happy with, but it means that I have to cut the Bass control on the amp back to ax. 3.5 and boost the treble to 7.5 and increase the presence in order to get a lead tone that cuts the way I like it. With my other guitars, I tend to run the tone controls around 5 (midway) with the treble perhaps a little higher. Doesn't seem right to have to make such a big change, especially to the bass control. I guess this is the main reason for my feeling the need to meddle with the guitar. The amp may not be the best in the world, but it serves me well and I do like the clean tone. Even this relatively cheap valve Fender has something I couldn't find anywhere else for the money.
Andy
After the rave reviews on this forum, I recently bought the guitar myself!
I'm generally very pleased with that, nice tone, and the Sunburst finishing looks cool!
The fretboard is also much easier to play than I thought (I'm used to Gibson SG, Strat...).
Just a couple of remarks maybe:
the pups switch looks very cheap, it'll need replacing eventually.
the hardware is also quite cheap which makes setting difficult to adjust.
on bendings on first string sort of 12th/13th frets I get some sort of rattling noise. It's no big deal, but I don't want to raise the action too much.
Again, for the price it's an excellent guitar, I could never afford the real thing!
Going back to the tone, altough generally pleased, I'm considering changing pups to SDs Jazz at neck and JB at bridge, to brighten up the sound.
I know there's been lots of discussion on this forum about the topic.
Has anyone got round to this modification eventually? Is it worth doing, or the Seymour Designed pups do the job just as well?
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 29 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:03 am Post subject:
Enrico,
I'm still waiting for the 1000k ohm volume pot I ordered to see if this helps the bridge pick-up tone enough. My gut feel is that I will end up changing the pick-up, but it's a lot of money for an unknown change, so I am happy to try other cheaper options first. I am currently happy with the neck and mid tones (although a better pick-up may well provide better tones there also). I am just missing some sweetness and character from the bridge. Interestingly, I was flicking through Guitar (and bass) magazine in a shop on Saturday. They were reviewing the Squier Master series Hollow bodied tele. This guitar has the same pair of duncan-designed pickups. The reviewer picked out the bridge pick-up tone as a weakness in that guitar and stated that they had noticed the same thing with a Hamer guitar reviewed previously with the same pick-up combination.
At the end of the day it's the individual's ears that have to decide. I still love the guitar. It's a keeper, but I am going to have to solve this one issue to really make it mine. If I do change the pick-up, it probably won't be until around Christmas... Andy.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: well
I 've been really disapointed last week . Jamming in trio with people i didn't play during 2 years was a real pleasure . I choose the straight way : just the amp . ok i tried an old MXR disto + at one point. I was bored with the PUP's, the neck one is the worst i agree and the bridge must be as bad , but it sounds bridge , harsher. So i'm gonna change with what i have in stock : a 59 & a JB , i will tell you. _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=147748
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 189 Location: Northern California
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:47 pm Post subject:
Well, I went whole hog and am having Gene Baker build me a new Robben Ford Baker. I'll be seeing Gene and checking out the shop on Saturday. I'll post a couple pics later if anyone is interested.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: HOG
Well Ian i don't know what means getting hog yet . But either you are cruel or distracted. I mean it's the wrong thread , here are all the poor little bluemeanies whining about squier and there you are talking about Bakery.
How meeeeeeannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn .
Now have you ever consider buying Johnny Z one, considering what he told us the frets are still ready for a long long ride. ( and this palm tree sounds toooooooo good ) ( plus even Robben don't have the orange case). _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=147748
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 189 Location: Northern California
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:11 am Post subject: Re: HOG
Bluelobster wrote:
Well Ian i don't know what means getting hog yet . But either you are cruel or distracted. I mean it's the wrong thread , here are all the poor little bluemeanies whining about squier and there you are talking about Bakery.
How meeeeeeannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn .
Now have you ever consider buying Johnny Z one, considering what he told us the frets are still ready for a long long ride. ( and this palm tree sounds toooooooo good ) ( plus even Robben don't have the orange case).
LOL! I already had my order in with Gene before JohnnyZ had his up for sale, plus that one is too cool for me to play! Didn't mean to sidetrack the thread.
As far as the Esprit, I've checked a couple out and they were both fairly light and good players. I agree both would need a p/u and electronics swap to really shine. I would suggest the Duncan JB/59 combo for this as a start.
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