Robben Ford Discussion

Aeolian · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:15 pm Post subject: Celestion Speakers

Now that all of the Celestion 65's have been bought up (and/or blown up by Robben) I'd like to toss another find into the ring. The G12H 30th Anniversary. I'm not sure how it compares to the C75's that Robben's using now but I put one in a 1-12 cab I have and compared it to a 2-12 of the same construction (pine with floating birch baffle) that has 65's in it. The former occupant of the 1-12 was a Tone Tubby, which has a great smooth vintage sound with a solid, even bottom end but does the kind of high end compression that an old lightweight speaker does. You can't get that pop and response that the C65 has in spades. The G12H is similar, maybe not quite as sweet in the midrange but has more bottom end. Not as boomy or wolffy though as the Mesa Black Shadow/Celestion 90. The G12H is very dynamic and efficient (100db/1W) so the response is great. The best part is that with overdrive it has that grindy midrange snarl that Robben had on the Blue Line records and almost got back on Keep on Running. The 65's are a bit more open and airy. If I was going to go to the trouble to switch speakers in a recording session, I'd use the 65's for clean tone and backing tracks. And the G12H for overdrive lead tones, just to get that presence to stand out.
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kirk95 · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:17 pm Post subject:

Aeolian what are you using for an amp?

I have not tried the 65's....but have used the G12H, the Tone Tubby E1s, Fanes and some Harry Joyce that I just purchased. I play through a Two Rock Opal.

Right now I have 2 2x12 cabs and one 1x12 cab:

1x12 cab has G12H
2x12 cab has 2 Harry Joyce
2x12 cab has 1 G12H and a Fane

I sold my Tone Tubbies they were just two dark sounding.

I love all three cabs a lot! The 1x12 stays in my studio. I get great low volume tones out of this cab – both clean and lead. Great for studio not enough bottom for live.

The other two cabs are my live cabs. The Harry Joyce has this nice compression thing that happens when you really hit the notes hard. It's a very nice dynamic effect for the crunch to overdrive tones. The other Cab with the Fane and the G12H just kills for clean tones...very quick response to picking attack.

It's all good...except I could never make the Tubbies work.
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Aeolian · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:46 pm Post subject:

Kirk, My primary amp is an Andy Fuchs mod made from a Music Man. I've tried the Two Rocks. A friend out here (and former student of Robben's) is a distributor (see www.tonegurus.com). He had a 2-12 TR cab with G12H's that was great. He had a small 1-12 combo with a 65 as well but the cab sounds a bit choked up. I've played though another friends 1-12 TR cab (with K&M modded Bassman) with a 65 in it which sounded much more open and fuller. I've also played that K&M combo with a Fane in it and found it a bit nasal. For awhile I had loan of a 2-12 TR cab with Tubbies that I was trying to preak in for someone. It was fine for keeping a tele from hurting someone and sounded real even but had no life. After hearing my 1-12 Tubby, a Tele guy I know put some 10's in his Vibro King and he's very happy with that.
The main difference I find between my Fuchs (I haven't played his factory amps but Chris Rothbach showed me his one night during a break) and the Two Rocks is that I find the Fuchs easier to play through. For recording, I think that the K&M Custom has more color but it's harder to use on stage. I can get from clean to OD to boosted OD on the Fuchs without any dramatic volume changes or the sound changing much in timbre. The TR seems to need more adjustment between settings in my experience. The Fuchs isn't compressed in a Mesa Mavrick sort of way, there is still amazing dynamic response, but it seems to draw sound out of your guitar the way an amp that compresses does. You know, sometimes you feel like the sound is being pulled out of the guitar with no effort and sometimes you feel like your pushing it up the cord?
For a really wild amp, at some point I'm going to get around to posting a review of my Zinky prototype on Harmony Central. There are two of them. Mine and a copy he built for another guy out here. We keep trying to get him to release this as a product and he keeps saying that he might.
BTW, there's a bass player who used to live around here that played with Robben and Garth in the '70's who went by the handle Captain Kirk. He just moved up to the northwest.
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midc74 · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:24 pm Post subject:

hmmm.. I might have to try a G12H.

I currently am using one Vintage 30, and one Classic Lead 80 in my Rivera 2x12 with my Fuchs. I like the sound, the V30 gives it plenty of bottom end... and I think the Classic Lead 80 excels at the mids and highs.

What is the G12H rated again?

Patrick

kirk95 · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:38 pm Post subject:

30 watts
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bluesman · Senior Member Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 219 Location: UK

I tried G12 Century: 105db, 80 watt and only 2kg. (£90)
2x12 cab sounds like 4x12. Very tight bass, sweet mids and highs.
There is also G12 Century Vintage : 100 db, 60 watt and only 1,6 kg. (£55)
Very smooth overdrive sound with 4x12 and very light too.

midc74 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:23 am Post subject:

It would be fun to get like one of everything.. just make one giant wall of speakers (with some sort of switching system, so you could quickly change between them). You know if you go to buy a car stereo they have a setup like that. Why arn't the music stores setup that way too!?

It really is amazing how much affect the speaker choice has on your sound.

Patrick

midc74 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:31 am Post subject:

I would be worried about blowing the G12H with my ODS... but I just might have to make me a new combo cab for my Mesa Subway Blues with a G12H in it. I'll bet those would go well together... and probably improve the sound a lot over the 10" Black Shadow that's in it.

So what should I make that cab out of? Cherry? Walnut? I need to learn more about the resonant/sonic qualities of different woods...

Patrick

Aeolian · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:18 am Post subject:

midc74 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:18 pm Post subject:

Aeolian, yeah.. my ODS is a 100. I'll probably stay with the V30 and Lead 80 for now (with that amp). My Rivera 2x12 cab is made out of solid-core 5/8"-thick Finnish birch ply.

The cab I was thinking of making would be a combo. I'd just move the mesa chasis into it.

So, you have never used any hardwoods for your cabs? The weight would be a issue. But for a un-covered, stained/finished cab it'd be cool lookn'. I wasn't sure about the resonant qualities of hardwoods.

The mahogony ply sounds like it would be cool. Although, the mesa is already kind of dark sounding. It probably would be better to use a Pine or maybe Birch.

Are the plywoods used for strength? Or strictly a cost issue?

Patrick

Aeolian · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:42 pm Post subject:

I've made a hardwood cabinet for a head but don't think it would work too well for a speaker. The resonant frequency (Fs) of a small piece of maple or whatever would be fairly high and right in the middle of that midrange presence peak. It might work but it could be nasty, and an expensive use of nice wood. Those old hardwood Boogies can be pretty harsh. Uncovered can be nice though. I have one 1-12 made from baltic birch that I oil stained. It lets the cabinet ring and come alive. (read Daved's response to my question about Robben not putting anything on top of his 2-12)
Plywood is stronger and doesn't warp like solid wood. A straight piece of clear pine is pretty expensive which is why I use the glue lam stuff as a compromise.
For a combo cab for the Subway, I'd go with pine and a fairly stiff birch baffle to keep the response alive. You could also front mount the speaker as that opens up the top end a bit. Not sure why. I've tried various things like undercutting the rear mount and radiusing the cutout to try and see if it is diffraction or the additional loading of the air mass in the cutout. The real thin Fender Tolex is the least damping covering that I've found.
Sounds like a fun project. Be interesting to see how it comes out.
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mayer · Member Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 24

Quick question for you guys dialoguing on the Celestions and Fuchs amp (or anyone else...):

I am having Fuchs mod a 1970 DR that I have had for a while; I bought it with an original altec 417-8H.

Any thoughts/advice/experience you could share with me going into this mod? Both on the mods to the amp, and the combination of the Fuchs mod and this speaker? I'll be using it primarily with a 59 LP reissue with original pafs that I installed.

Any input would be appreciated!
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midc74 · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:45 pm Post subject:

I'm jealous.. heh

I saw one go on the gear page a couple weeks ago for $700 I think. Wish I would have had the extra cash.

You'll have to let us know how it turns out!

I love the sound of 6V6's

I'm kinda regretting selling my Champ II. Although, I couldn't find a reverb I liked with it. *shrug* ...and I used the cash to buy a bunch of new pedals! ;)

Patrick

Aeolian · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:40 am Post subject:

mayer · Member Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 24

Thanks, folks, for the feedback...

Aeolian, a couple of follow-ups for you:

- The LP is a very nice 1998 HR piece I picked up used, and installed a couple high-output old pafs into. I just use a simple "how does it sound unplugged" test for solid bodies, and this one is a killer (clean, articulate, etc).

- Point taken, and agreed, on the pre-amp gain. I'm going to pass this on to Andy.

- I typically never push the amp past 7.5 or so, as it breaks up too much for my taste.

- Late Blomfield sounds exactly like what I like! Are you referring to the Super Sessions/Live Adventures tone, or the Waldorf stuff shortly before he passed on?
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