Robben Ford Discussion

[Leftbender]

Still, forum friends, forum comics and forum abusers, I cannot understand why one would buy a black Baker in december 2006 and want to sell it after four months. Just curious, that's all.
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"Don't play what's there, play what's not there" Miles Davis

[BlueRunner]

Hey everyone, I'm going to weight in from a direction from which I have absolutely no qualifications at all. From the direction of psychology. I can tell you that the most I know is that I took Psych 101 in college to get necessary general ed credits. At least I think I did. Heck, it was the late 1960's, so maybe I only THINK I went to college.

Anyway, I doubt there's anyone on this BBS, leg-puller or not, who doesn't think that this is an absolutely beautiful guitar, and wouldn't give their right arm for it, if their spouse would let them. Mean Gene himself checks in here on occassion, and then has to take a breather when the accolades come roaring in like 15-foot surf. There's no doubt that someone is going to come back with a very serious offer.

In the meantime, however, LVC: Why are you selling this guitar? You must know that if you let it go, the chances of your ever having another one are somewhere south of zero. I can only imagine what you must be going through to put it up for sale. Which, going back to Psych 101, makes me wonder if some of the quick offense you took to some lighthearted posts is related to the posibility that you really don't want to sell this guitar, and either consciously or subconsciously resent whatever is going on in your life that's caused you to put it up for sale.

So two things to ponder: First, if you decide that you really don't want to sell it, and you have to make some tough decisions to keep it, everyone on this BBS will back you. Second, if you do sell it, and the buyer is someone from this BBS, at least you'll know that it's going to a good home with someone who will love it, respect it, and PLAY it. I.e., it won't be locked all alone in a dark closet to function as some appreciating asset in a portfolio, and it won't show up on e-Bay the next day at twice your selling price with some wild claim that Robben poured holy water on it at a Clinic.

In other words, either way is good; we all wish we could buy this guitar; and we wish you the best, whatever you end up doing.
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- BlueRunner

[Aeolian]

As I understand it, Robben's personal black Baker was a spruce top over a mahogany body. And that most of the production RF's were spruce over alder. The earlier spruce/alder ones that Robben had, didn't quite have the magic he was looking for. Many were very pretty though, tranparent red or sunburst. So Gene tried something else and painted it black. Suddenly, possibly because Robben is getting substantial public use out of that one, everybody wants a black one. In my mind the least attractive finish of any of the guitars Gene built for Robben. But Robben is a player first and that particular guitar had the mojo.

It always amazed me when folks would come up at the clinics with beautiful flame or quilted maple top Bakers and expect Robben to fawn over them. Pretty works of art, and nice guitars in their own right, but not really Robben's cup of tea.

The idea that you will have some of Robben's mojo if you have an instrument that looks like his doesn't make much sense to me. And judging from the initial reactions (before he catches himself and assumes his usual very graceful demeanor) I have the feeling that it dismay's Robben to see these things.

I get a hint of that in someone posting a for sale ad on this board of a lookalike instrument and being so overly sensitive and combative regarding it. As if anyone caring to be a part of this board should be falling all over themselves to have something that looks like something Robben used. Personally, if I was going to drop that kind of money for that kind of vibe I'd buy a really good 54 Les Paul reissue and capture the vibe of two of my heros, Robben and Bloomers. I'll wager that more of our cherished Robben tracks were recorded with that LP than with the black Baker.

I'd like to have a nice spruce top Robben design guitar. I've played a couple that were really great. A couple Fenders and one Baker that I loved except for the varitone it had (but the wood and the guitar were exceptional). But I can't justify that kind of money for something that is a tribute to another player, no matter how much I admire or enjoy them. I guess if I had more money, or were into collecting (something suggested many times in this thread, how "collectible" this guitar would be, especially to people looking at the album cover and thinking that this was the same thing), but I'm stretched to afford instruments that I'll actually play in my own voice.

More power to the folks with the disposable income to collect things, and honor their heros by building collections of look alikes. Just not everybodies thing. And I don't think it's cool to blast folks who don't kowtow at the same altar.
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There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com

[nineacres]

Amen!

Thanks Aeolian - as ever the voice of reason and balance. Much appreciated.
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"Creativeness often consists of merely turning up what is already there. Did you know that right and left shoes were only thought up a little more than a century ago?" - Bernice Fitz-Gibbon 1894-1982

[frank0936]

I have to disagree a little with one thing. It may be that some people buy an artist model thinking that they will sound like their hero. After more than 40 years of playing guitar, I know there ain't no short cuts or magic wands. But if one of my guitar heroes (and especially one as discriminating as Robben) pick a certain brand or type of guitar, I know that it must be an instrument of exceptional quality, and I think that I deserve the best quality instrument that I can afford for whatever sounds I can make. That is the motive for my buying any artist model - not that it's going to make me sound like him.
Frank

[Red Suede]

I understand some of these points, but a lot of pros use Les Pauls, Telecasters, 335s, etc, so there's no difference using these to getting your own voice and using a signature instrument to do the same. The signature just dosen't have the history and isn't mainstream. I have a Steve Morse, had a Music Man Van Halen, have a japanese RF, had a Malmsteen, and they all had a unique tone that I enjoyed. So to me theres nothing wrong with going after someones tone per se cause usually you're not going to sound like the person it's designed around anyway. Garth Webber has Robben's amber RF and sounds great with it.

[JingChiFan]

I'm a fan. Can't afford a '59 rosewood Tele and it probably wouldn't be PERFECT for me anyhow. I've owned a RF like RedSuedes. Nice guitar, not the best neck for me. So respectively I had 2 guitars made for me, to my specs, that for me embody those tones and vibe. And yet they're highly personalized to me. Their value on the collecter market is zilch, and I also will probably never sell them because they are perfect for me.
Jim Surles made the chambered mahogany, carved spruce top double cut, and Bill Chapin made the "Bloomfield" T:



Mike

[diatonicdude]

[LVC]

Just to clarify -- I am selling the GB RF because

1) I am not using it
2) I am realigning my collection

1) Although I love the Baker it should go to a player/collector that will appreciate the beauty of Gene's work and tone of these special guitars and PLAY it. These guitars are not inexpensive -- they will never be inexpensive (with or without holy water). I have already received some significant legit offers on guitar (little less than asking which is OK) ... but even though I am not playing it --- this type of guitar (as a collector/investor) will only continue to go up in value because of its rarity ... and I am really torn about selling it.

2) As a collector I have been buying old wood strats and first issue Historic Les Pauls.... specifically 2004 Cloud 9 59 Historic Reissues (I have already purchased 3). If you do not know what Cloud 9s (C9) are -- they are chambered (yes chambered NOT weight relieved) Les Pauls.... I have been an LP man for years -- stop playing them because of back issues (LPs can get very heavy) -- the C9s (being chambered) weigh in around the same as the chambered Baker RFs. Personally I am more comfortable with the Lesters than than Bakers. I think the RFs Gene built smokes the Lesters in craftsmanship -- but that is a matter for personal judgement.

Here is are a couple of pictures of one of the 2004 C9 59Rs in my collection --- it is a Stinger (one of only three made by Gibson) This Les Paul Historic 59R weighs only 6.8 lbs





Getting back to Baker -- the reason I am selling within a year of acquisition is that I am not playing it -- and I believe a guitar like the Robben Baker RF I have deserves to be played and appreciated --- and hopefully played and recorded by a top player. It is that type of guitar. Les Pauls are fairly easy to come by (even rare ones) Black Robben Ford Baker spruce tops are not so easy to come by. .... and if you ever played one -- you will know why collector/players rarely give them up.

But again -- I should not have to explain myself in a forum. If someone has a comment to make on pricing or something that could be construed as a personal attack (right or wrong) you use PM or email to make your comment or observation. It really is in bad form to approach those subject matters publicly. When you do that publicly in a forum it really brings the quality of the forum down and reflects badly on everybody. Even if someone solicits comments (i.e. "what do you think" amp/guitar comparison) one should taper their remarks without getting personal, religious or political.... but I think there is more give and take in that situation since poster essentially "asked for it" and opened him/herself up to debate and potential attack.

Bottom line, at the end of the day, one should always be cognizant of good form and etiquette when posting online.

[JohnnyZ]

>> When you do that publicly in a forum it really brings the quality of the forum down and reflects badly on everybody.

Really? My opinion of the quality of this forum hasn't changed a bit even though this topic has turned controversial through no fault of its own. Actually, it's livend up this sometimes stagnant place to some excellent discussion...

Something I'd like to point out. This topic should not be in the "Robben Discussion". Selling a guitar has nothing to do with Robben Ford and his music. "Open Discussion" would be more appropriate to present a guitar for sale, whether its a RF Baker or a Squier Esprit or an Ibanez special...

LVC, as others have said, stick around and have fun. Again, nothing's changed here except, perhaps, your attitude. Sell the guitar, come back, and have some fun. ok? This is still the best forum on the net!

[BlueRunner]

Seconding JohnnyZ, and no offense to those who have been making their posting quota, we were sort of in an April doldrums until LVC put this Baker up for discussion. Maybe it was a circadian rhythm slip we can blame on George Bush hitting us with Daylight Savings three weeks early, or maybe everyone just needed a rest, but this has been a fun one. And if LVC completes a sale off line, I hope he gives us a full report.
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- BlueRunner

[LVC]

[quote="JohnnyZ"]>> This topic should not be in the "Robben Discussion". Selling a guitar has nothing to do with Robben Ford and his music. "Open Discussion" would be more appropriate to present a guitar for sale, whether its a RF Baker or a Squier Esprit or an Ibanez special... "

Honestly did not know where to list and stated as such. I just did a search and found your California there. Nice guitar saw it when attending RF clinic -- think it was 2 years ago. (I was the guy who had his son with him and the PRS HB).

[JohnnyZ]

>> I just did a search and found your California there.

Mea Culpa!

[bluenote]

Whewww!! after all the smoke cleared the bottom line is that , that is one beautiful guitar and if I had a fraction of Johnny Z's dough I'd buy it right now!!!
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[JohnnyZ]