Robben Ford Discussion

Slowhand · Newbie Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 1

Found this on Google News and thought it was a pretty fair review...When you get right down to it, I think it makes some of the criticisms as the AMG review that has been debated here, but I think it couches them in a better, more evenhanded light too. Judging from the comments made regarding the AMG review, I'd guess that there are more than a few here who agree with the statements that were made, but not with how they were said.

http://www.musicbox-online.com/reviews-2007/robben-ford-truth-0816200702.html

Millibobs · Senior Member Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 291

Slowhand, that was the essence of my own comments (which, looking back, were a little 'hyper' at the time). Criticism should always be welcomed but it should also be as impartial as possible. I know for example that my own playing and writing is mediocre - I just need to be informed of this in as gentle a manner as possible! Unfortunately, my wife takes the opposite view.....

How we suffer for our art........

telefunk1 · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:02 am Post subject:

This one is clearer in regard to what the reviewer thinks are the drawbacks to the CD: songwriting and singing. I can live with the vocals and feel RF has come a long way in this category; it is the songwriting that I have trouble with on Truth (and the previous 2 CDs). This review hits the nail on the head for me: too refined. The songs sound crafted instead of inspired - "lets add a second bridge here with some really cool chords." They sound agonized over, and too thought out. But to his credit, this seems to be the direction he wants to go (at least according to recent interviews, songwriting is where is head is at right now). But maybe he is spending too much time with Michael MacDonald and not enough time with Howlin Wolf.

JohnnyZ · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:07 am Post subject:

Michael MacDonald ruined the Doobie Brothers...

Millibobs · Senior Member Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 291

Yeah, but he's the only one anybody remembers!!

roadwarriorfortheblues · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:25 am Post subject:

"Our ways are like shifting sand..."

You guys are insane. You're just living in the past. What do you see when you look in the mirror?

Many of Robben's Blues contemporaries are dead: Roy Buchanan, Rory Gallagher, SRV. The guys that are still living... Eric Clapton, Peter Green, Jimmie Vaughan, Robert Cray, Mick Taylor, are not putting out Blues records on par with the Chess/Willie Dixon era of music.

It's not fair to compare Robben's music to a bygone time. I would like to think that Robben lives in the present. Supernatural, Blue Moon and Truth are all modern Blues albums. Truth is an amazing album. It's not representative of the 20- or 21-year-old artist many of you are clinging to, but it reveals the passion and life-long drive of an accomplished musician. A man that follows his heart and isn't afraid to change with the times. I don't know Robben and I've never met him, but I do believe he is true to his musical intentions.
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JohnnyZ · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:08 am Post subject:

You make way too much sense, RW! Smile

I took Truth and Mystic Mile on a long road trip this past weekend and after listening to them back to back, MM first, I pretty much realized what RW said. And, my enjoyment level of Truth has increased considerably after listening to it for what it is and not expecting Blue Line style...

One thing about artists past and present- it's not necessarily wrong to like the music from an artist 20-30 years ago and not particularly like what that artist produces today. I can name a dozen artists/bands whose earlier stuff I like and prefer much more than their latter (i.e. Aerosmith, Led Zep, Rush). And, conversely, there are artists/bands whose latter albums I like much better. Sometimes, we don't want an artist to change, or are afraid of it from experience. I guess it all boils down to personal preferences...

marinblues · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:35 am Post subject:

I love that "too refined" comment....

I suppose if the reviewer found a CD good, he would have said that it's "too good"...

Music journalists = dropout musicians with a big chip on their shoulder.

M.
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telefunk1 · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:44 am Post subject:

Wow. Where to begin. First, glad to see some passion here on the RF board. First it as the anti-Love pro-original Beatles tirade and now Road is getting worked up about my comments on Truth. This is a refreshing trend considering how this board is usually in a passive, don't make waves or be critical mode.

I do have to take exception to some of Road's comments. Don't think I am living in the past at all. I did not even compare Truth to RFs earlier works (except to say that I felt Truth exhibited some of the tendencies as the previous two releases), or bands like the Blue Line. I listen to Truth as its own piece of work, and RF is one of the few artists out there that can deliver the unexpected at any given moment, so my mind is always open when his stuff is released. I never go into one of his CDs with preconceived notions, nor do I come out of them with a hankering for the past - they yam what they yam, to paraphrase Popeye. And I agree that he is staying true to his musical intentions - it just may be that his intentions (focus on songwriting in the M. MacDonald mode) are not my cup of tea. Not that it matters one bit.

My comment about Howlin Wolf may have been misinterpreted, too. I was not suggesting that RF sound or play or write like the Wolf (or a 21 year old RF), but that Truth lacks a spontaneous feel and drive. The Wolf seemed like a good contrast to the studied, craftsmanship songwriting of someone like MacDonald. And this lack of drive that I find troubling on Truth stems, to me, from the songwriting (the "too refined comment"). Passion and drive and groove are timeless qualities, whether recorded at Sun Studios, the original Chess studio, or the latest state of the art facility. So I was not comparing Truth to a bygone era, or longing for more of the same from RF. One can live (and create music) in the present and still be "too refined."

Finally, the jab at music journalists - is there a requirement that a CD review be written by a musician? Does an art critic have to know how to paint to understand, appreciate, and interpret art? The best criticism is well written and articulated, throughful, and,yes, provocative, regardless of the personal background of the reviewer. I thought both Truth reviews in question made very good points, and we don't even know if they are guitar players or not. And both were much better written than the one in Vintage Guitar, which probably was written by a player!

marinblues · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:49 am Post subject:

JohnnyZ · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject:

Nice post, telefunk. That is not to say I'm "on your side" or not. Just, nice writing of your own feelings and insight. Same for RoadWarrior on what she wrote...

Passion! Isn't that what the Blues is all about?!

Love to read more passion, and hear more Blues!!!

Go for it! Wink

UncleSalty · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:13 am Post subject:

Red Suede · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:15 am Post subject:

The thing I hate about most critics is they never qualify their statements with an "in my opinion, you should check it out for yourself and see what you think of it" type of statement. Most of them paint themselves as authorities, like they really know what it takes and are trying to poison their public against the product. Power gone mad most of the time.

Aeolian · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject:

The only thing that stays the same is change. Robben is no longer the same person he was in the Yellowjackets era, or the BlueLine era. His musical prioities have changed. There you are. It's his life, his music, and he has earned the right to put out what he wants to.

I do find it interesting that this is the first album (if I'm recalling things correctly) where Robben himself is listed as producer. He has brought back Nico Bolas for the recording and sound help. But he is making all the musical decisions himself. I don't know how much bouncing off the other musicians or Nico he did, and this sound like an extension of where he was going with Blue Moon and Keep On Running, but it sounds looser and less focused. Or maybe that was the intention.

I've often felt that he was in such awe of Jordan and Drayton on Tiger Walk that their personalities shown though stronger than his. His public persona is very humble and polite. I don't know how he deals with strong personalities in the studio.

For instance, we've all been waiting for a release of Moonchild blues. And Robben finally was able to produce it. But this version seems not to comepetely gel. It was like he had this bunch of guys there in the studio, so they went ahead and did it. I remember asking him after Tiger Walk why he hadn't added "The Champ" as he was playing it at most shows around that time. He said they tried it "but it didn't gel". And I could see that. I've heard him play that with many different groups and a few of them just soared. While a few were merely great.

This album suffers from that for me. Unfortunately little soaring. I don't know if it was wearing all the hats or what. I remember at a clinic Robben talking about songwriting and avoiding cliche "moon/June/spoon" rhymes. But there are a lot on this record. This just don't seem to flow as well as they did in albums past. There is something about the songs that seems to either be very predictable or awkward, sometimes in the same song.

At first listen, the playing on Blue Moon sounded like nothing special to me. Over time it's grown on me and I was thankful for the return to a fatter sound after Tiger Walk's wiry thinness. The playing on Truth grabs me much more strongly, not as strongly as most of the playing on the BlueLine records, but more than any of the recent albums. So I'm sure that over time it will really get to me.

I put up a post on TGP that instantly faded into oblivion comparing Truth to John Mayer's Continuum. Both are very guitar centric and have that Muscle Shoals old school sensibility. Kind of loose and not slicked down with very tight playing and highly compressed pop production. Jordan on one, Drayton on the other (Charley's shuffle on Lateral Climb is a textbook old skool double shuffle and should be required listening for 99% of the drummers playing blues other than June Kore), and Larry Goldings doing his gospel B3 thing on both. Mayer's guitar playing is nowhere near Robben's, and neither is a classic soul singer. But somehow, John's songs seem to fit like old shoes. Both are transporting us back to the days of Stax and Atlantic, but Mayer's song feel like you're back there. While Robben's feel like they're trying. I realize that Robben is going for more sophistication, and he is the master at making swerves in his playing that sound cool, catch your ear by surpprise, but still sound like they belong. And he manages this in a lot of his songwritting as well. But there are enough examples in this album where it sounds a bit forced to make it sound a bit disjointed at times.

Remember, this is from the number 3 Robben fan (after Liz and Ed).

I wonder what Robben thinks of John Mayer. And his ability to put a similar album over as platinum because of marketing history. Is he glad that people are being exposed to the kind of music he likes? I would hope so.

It would be a total musical pity to have Robben opening for JM, and I bet that John would be beside himself with fear having Robben around. But I'd bet that cherrypicking from Blue Moon, Keep On Running, and Truth would put together a set so musically compatible, that folks would be leaving the arena with at least one RF CD. (and besides, I've love to hear Robben sitting in on "Gravity". Can you say Dumblefest?)
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spatzi · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 65

My problem with Ford's last four/five albums is that there is nothing in there that inspires me to cover the songs with my band. (Except for 'hand in hand with the blues) Lol! I remember in the early to mid 90's, I covered almost every song on every album. The riffs, the guitar work, all inspiring.

This is a good example of how a band like the blue line, was more than the sum of it's parts and really allowed Ford to be his best. Robben has been unable to scale those heights since, imo. He's also a much better LIVE artist than studio, and that to me is, what seperates the men from the boys. Everything after 'handful of blues' has been getting too antiseptic.

I listened to the new album about 3 times and filed it away. Only one song really stood out for me. 'River of soul'. When I put on his best album, 'handful of blues', I have to wonder what happened to that sound? I still play most of that album with my current band.

But hey, as long as Robben is happy with where he is, what does it matter what we think?