I think what you are both missing in your comments is the all-important "in my opinion" disclaimer. For example, one of you says
"It has nothing to do with 'preference'"
but the disagreement between the two of you suggests exactly the opposite. In fact, it has *everything* to do with preferences.
I'm not one to completely discount dealing in absolutes when discussing the relative merits of musicians, songwriters, or other artists, but beauty really is (largely, at least) in the eyes of the beholder, and the ears of the listener.
For example, I like Haynes and Ford, but I personally prefer Ford's playing and songwriting by a fair bit.
And, if I had to pick one desert island Ford disk, it might just be Supernatural.
I think what you are both missing in your comments is the all-important "in my opinion" disclaimer. For example, one of you says
"It has nothing to do with 'preference'"
but the disagreement between the two of you suggests exactly the opposite. In fact, it has *everything* to do with preferences.
I'm not one to completely discount dealing in absolutes when discussing the relative merits of musicians, songwriters, or other artists, but beauty really is (largely, at least) in the eyes of the beholder, and the ears of the listener.
For example, I like Haynes and Ford, but I personally prefer Ford's playing and songwriting by a fair bit.
And, if I had to pick one desert island Ford disk, it might just be Supernatural.
Different strokes and all that.
Yes, I said IMO about 4 times in the post. And why is this even necessary? Isn't it a little redundant? Obviously, anything I write is 'my opinion'. Unless I bring in someone else's quote, and use "....", it's all 'in my opinion.' I don't see the need to follow every line with IMO. This is just stating the obvious.
No, I certainly don't expect folks to insert "in my opinion" or "IMO" all the time.
It's a more subtle matter of word choice and phrasing. There are modes of discourse that leave room for interesting differences of opinion, and there are other modes that tend to result in closed-minded defenses of entrenched positions that you sometimes (often) encounter on the ol' intertubes.
I mean this is a general observation, rather than as a specific criticism of your posts. My main point was that you two seemed to be disagreeing about stuff that, to me, are largely matters of personal taste and preference.
To un-hijack the thread a bit:
Regarding Truth, I'm enjoying it a lot, and it's gotten a lot of play at our house and on the road.
Excellent musicianship all around, and some really strong tunes (IMO!). But there are a couple of tunes that haven't completely won me over yet. That may or may not change.
I would also agree that while I enjoy hearing the mix of different backing musicians on Truth and other recent releases, I do miss the resulting loss of top-to-bottom cohesiveness of the Blue Line releases.
It will be a while before I can try to rank Truth in the pantheon of my Robben favorites.
IMHO, the opinion's expressed regarding the expression of humble opinions, are fair and balanced opinions which, depending upon your own humble opinion, remain a matter of opinion until such time as they become absolutes, at which point, in my humble opinion, the collective opinions of the majority outweigh the more isolated opinions of the minority, so giving rise to a majority view which, in my opinion, is a reasonable course, unless of course, you are of the opposite opinion to the majority, in which case whilst your opinions may fundamentally differ, your views may be somewhat more aligned and this leads me take the view, or perhaps express the humble opinion that.......okay, I've lost the plot now, I think I had something there for a while, but heck, I have my copy of Truth to listen to, so I'll leave you with these salient if opinionated musings.
This is my favourite Forum on the planet - loads of great debate, some good humour and an appreciation of fine music of one denomination or another; but that's just my opinion.....!!!!
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 234 Location: Hartlepool, U.K.
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:
Anyone invited Blobby? It's time someone restored some insanity to this board. _________________ "Creativeness often consists of merely turning up what is already there. Did you know that right and left shoes were only thought up a little more than a century ago?" - Bernice Fitz-Gibbon 1894-1982
My problem with Ford's last four/five albums is that there is nothing in there that inspires me to cover the songs with my band. (Except for 'hand in hand with the blues) Lol! I remember in the early to mid 90's, I covered almost every song on every album. The riffs, the guitar work, all inspiring.
This is a good example of how a band like the blue line, was more than the sum of it's parts and really allowed Ford to be his best. Robben has been unable to scale those heights since, imo. He's also a much better LIVE artist than studio, and that to me is, what seperates the men from the boys. Everything after 'handful of blues' has been getting too antiseptic.
I kind of agree, with the notable exception of Supernatural, which is one of the best thing I ever had the chance to listen.
Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 107 Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:27 am Post subject:
I've been sitting on the side line reading this post since its inception. I can't be silent anymore. I do agree with Loek, sorry Spatzi.
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION - I think some folks expect too much from Robben as if he were Jesus Christ. He's an artist, he created a work that either you like or you don't. If you do then embrace it, if not move on.
What's said in some of these posts is worse than the AMG review. I sure hope Robben does not read this thread. I think its embarrassing and hurtful (IMHO).
Let me state I'm a huge fan of Robben's. I have been since the 70's, I'd say I'm # 4 behind Aeolian . That said, again IMHO, I think Truth is a great work. Some songs are really good, some are so-so. But overall I like it. I think Robben's voice is recorded well, probably the best I've heard so far on any of his records. He certainly has been working on his voice, I can hear it. His guitar playing and guitar parts are as usual, great.
Pop the CD into your player sit back, relax and enjoy it for what it is and stop expecting to blown away by awesome licks and cool comping. If you want to hear that go back to live Jing Chi, any Blue Line Recording, Robben and Larry Live, New Morning Paris DVD, his instructional DVDs, The Inside Story, Yellow Jackets…….etc…
Thanks for listening or is it reading?
I do love the passion on this board, it's exhilarating!
...I think Truth is a great work. Some songs are really good, some are so-so. But overall I like it...
I agree. This CD is solid.
As usual, there are songs that immediately grab me, and a few that don't. I attribute this mostly to my expectations. They will inevitably grow on me over time, as many other Robben tunes have in the past.
I always look forward to hearing what Robben will do next. He is one of my "very" few must purchase artists.
If you want to hear that go back to live Jing Chi, any Blue Line Recording, Robben and Larry Live, New Morning Paris DVD, his instructional DVDs, The Inside Story, Yellow Jackets…….etc…
I think that the guitar playing on Truth is quite remarkable.
Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 107 Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:27 am Post subject:
Marin,
You're correct there's remarkable playing on Truth. I may have incorrectly implied in my post that the playing was not on par with RF's other recordings, when if fact it certainly is.
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: Re: truth review
loek wrote:
spatzi,how can you say to ford: your too good ?too good for what?Too good for you ,because
you will never reach that state as a musician[amateur].fords: "I hope not"says it all.because how can he communicate with his music.should he stay at home,because some fool yelled at him ;˙our too good?and now you write him off as an recording artist.Instead of writing long e-mails,[maybe you should write a book ,but don't call it "mein ford"[only joking]
I responded to this stunning idiocy yesterday, but my post was removed without explanation. Just letting everyone know that I found two serious problems in this post that I took issue with: 1) being called a 'fool' for praising RF. 2) Having my musical abilites insulted by someone who has never heard me. (ie: I will never reach that state..)
Why some of you even admit to supporting LOEK, that no one finds his last post completely off base, is fascinating, but doesn't make me want to post in the future. This is a guy who just told me he's an 'educated musician'. (have to take his word for it as he has never posted samples) When is the last time you heard an educated musician say to another musician, veteran or beginner: "You will never reach this level". He's never heard me, and even if he did, this elitist bs would still be much more offensive than the mild one word expletive I called him for that, and subsequently got my post deleted. LOEK is the same guy who says "You're a fool for praising RF during a live concert." I'm totally confused. Why would that make me a fool? I thought LOEK worships RF? Wouldn't this be a good thing?
I don't appreciate the censorship without even a five minute warning. Maybe I should learn to ignore who and what I find offensive, but my problem is I treat internet conversation the same as real life conversation, meaning, I don't say anything in a forum I wouldn't say to someone face to face. I choose my words carefully before I say them. If I'm insulted, twice, in one post, by LOEK, I respond to it and I call him for what he is. That's how I roll. If you cut me, then cut LOEKS last post as well, because that's what I responded to. If anything here is offensive, it's his last post. Seriously, an educated 'jazz' (big surprise) musician turning a compliment into 'fool' and even worse, telling me where my limits are musically? I wonder if RF uses this teaching method during his seminars. Someone should get the patent on it fast. It's priceless.
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')
. That said, again IMHO, I think Truth is a great work. Some songs are really good, some are so-so. But overall I like it. I think Robben's voice is recorded well, probably the best I've heard so far on any of his records. He certainly has been working on his voice, I can hear it. His guitar playing and guitar parts are as usual, great.
-> my stuff
