Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Southern California
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: Shuffle Blues in Bb (what is this scale over the G7)
On Robben's Back to the Blues: Part 2: Track 2 he plays an example of a Shuffle/Swing Blues in Bb. In bar 8 of the transcription, over the G7 and moving to Cm7 in bar 9 (the start of a VI-ii-V-I) he plays an ascending line that goes B, C, D#, G, Bb and then a Db (on the 1 of bar 9, the Cm7).
Bar 8 (G7)
-----------------------
--------------8---11--
-----------8-----------
---9--10--------------
-----------------------
-----------------------
Well, there are probably a couple of interpretations, but this is my take on it:
The G7 is obviously the dominant 7 of Cm. Many players ignore the dominant chord in a V7-i situation, and just play the tonic. Over the G7 the Cm arpeggio is dissonant, but quickly becomes consonant. jconstant said Robben plays a D# - it could be read as an Eb, giving a Cm triad (ignoring the B natural for the moment - which is only the seventh note of a Cm scale).
In a Bb blues, the G7 preparation for the Cm chord is very often left out. The accompanist may or may not put it in. Likewise the soloist. They don't have to be reading from the same sheet, so to speak.
There may be a few people reading this and wondering what on earth G7 and Cm have to do with a Blues in Bb. Well, the basic blues form would involve just three chords, Bb, Eb and F (I, IV and V in Bb):
Bbx4
Ebx2 Bbx2
Fx1 Ebx1 Bbx1 Fx1
A jazzier version of this might be:
Bbx1 Ebx1 Bbx2
Ebx2 Bbx1 G7x1
Cmx1 Fx1 Bbx1 Fx1
(All these chords could of course be 7ths, 9ths, etc). There are further variations of this form. I don't know the exact piece jconstant is referring to, but it is probably similar. The G7 can now be seen as an approach to the Cm chord in the last line, but it looks like Robben was ignoring the G7 and anticipating the Cm.
Not knowing the actual track, I may be completely off the wall here!
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Southern California
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:36 am Post subject:
Rob MacKillop wrote:
Well, there are probably a couple of interpretations, but this is my take on it:
The G7 is obviously the dominant 7 of Cm. Many players ignore the dominant chord in a V7-i situation, and just play the tonic. Over the G7 the Cm arpeggio is dissonant, but quickly becomes consonant. jconstant said Robben plays a D# - it could be read as an Eb, giving a Cm triad (ignoring the B natural for the moment - which is only the seventh note of a Cm scale).
In a Bb blues, the G7 preparation for the Cm chord is very often left out. The accompanist may or may not put it in. Likewise the soloist. They don't have to be reading from the same sheet, so to speak.
There may be a few people reading this and wondering what on earth G7 and Cm have to do with a Blues in Bb. Well, the basic blues form would involve just three chords, Bb, Eb and F (I, IV and V in Bb):
Bbx4
Ebx2 Bbx2
Fx1 Ebx1 Bbx1 Fx1
A jazzier version of this might be:
Bbx1 Ebx1 Bbx2
Ebx2 Bbx1 G7x1
Cmx1 Fx1 Bbx1 Fx1
(All these chords could of course be 7ths, 9ths, etc). There are further variations of this form. I don't know the exact piece jconstant is referring to, but it is probably similar. The G7 can now be seen as an approach to the Cm chord in the last line, but it looks like Robben was ignoring the G7 and anticipating the Cm.
Not knowing the actual track, I may be completely off the wall here!
Rob
Thanks, Rob. I think that makes a lot of sense. And the tune is very similar to your jazzier blues example. The only difference is in the last two bars which are another quick change of VI-ii-V-I.
In fact, at the beginning of the chapter he says he'll just start off with playing straight blues over the changes and then get fancy later on. This is early on so he's just thinking simple blues scales and I'll bet, as you said, ignoring the G7 and playing a Cm lick to lead into the Cm bar.
Thanks again,
Jim _________________ "Somebody's got to make some music around here." - Robben Ford
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Southern California
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:12 am Post subject:
Rob MacKillop wrote:
A jazzier version of this might be:
Bbx1 Ebx1 Bbx2
Ebx2 Bbx1 G7x1
Cmx1 Fx1 Bbx1 Fx1
(All these chords could of course be 7ths, 9ths, etc). There are further variations of this form. I don't know the exact piece jconstant is referring to, but it is probably similar. The G7 can now be seen as an approach to the Cm chord in the last line, but it looks like Robben was ignoring the G7 and anticipating the Cm.
Rob
Hey Rob, this part of your post got me thinking about something else. Let’s say during this piece the keyboard player is playing some of these changes with 7th and 9ths, etc. First since it’s a blues, you can probably bet someone playing them will at least play them as 7ths as they are in the example on Robben’s DVD. And even adding in 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths would still be diatonic. But what if they start throwing in altered tones? Couldn’t that quite easily clash with a soloist who’s trying to play a little more out of the box with his own altered notes. Is it safe to say an accompanist should stay diatonic (or play the chords as written if that's the case) so as to not clash? _________________ "Somebody's got to make some music around here." - Robben Ford
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