Robben Ford Discussion

frank0936 · Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:47 pm Post subject: another grumpy old fart

I'm definitely in the old fart club! Since I never had a teacher, beloved or otherwise, I'm really playing catchup now. Bill, I understand your frustration completely. Still, I try to learn new scales and theory. It's like learning new words to express new ideas. It keeps me from getting bored with myself, then hopefully I won't bore others either. I am never satisfied with what I play on stage(or off), and these theory discussions do give me some new ideas to try. Thanks everyone for the lessons.
Frank

jazzblues · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: Melodic Minor Tricks

Say you are playing Dm7 G7alt Cmaj7.
We now know we can play the Ab mel.minor scale over G7alt and it contains the #5,the b5,the #9 and the b9 in relation to G7.
The Ab melodic minor scale also contains two major triads;
the Db triad (contains b5 and b9) and the Eb triad (contains #5 and #9),which are the 4th and 5th step of the scale.
So you can play the Dm7-arpeggio over Dm7,play Db-and Eb triads over G7alt,which are only a half step away from Dm7,and resolve to Cmaj7.
This is discussed by Garrison Fewell on the Guitarplayer-site.
Go to Guitarplayer.com,click lessons,go to lesson archive,and down to Sessions;Chord over chord-soloing.
He explains it much better than I can.
One trick I use often is to play the Dm7-arp. over Dm7,go down a halfstep
and play a Db triad,go up a whole step from there and play the Eb triad,both triads over G7alt,as explained above,and then play a D triad over Cmaj7,which gives a D/C,sort of lydian sound that I like very much.
This triadic approach gives more of a Carlton sound,without all the connecting notes you get by running up and down the Mel.minor scale.
I know this is a lot of theory,but I hope you believe me when I say that if you practice it,and use your ears,soon you will be able to play it from the heart,without your head getting in the way.

Jazzblues.

diatonicdude · Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: Great stuff!!!!

What a great thread!!!

The questions raised here are what many aspiring musician may have asked at some time in their quest to become more fluent in their language of music. I believe RF himself once asked a fellow band member "what is that s*@t your playing?" prior to his beginnings with the whole / half scale. We are all just trying to improve, and whats more its fun; and as Kirk95 mentioned, knowledge is a powerfull thing (sorry Kirk95, I believe I asked you for tips on the H/W scale on the chat room the other night, but I didn't check this thread out before asking)!

Don't stop this stuff, please.

Happy playing, you are all great!!!

Smile

DD
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Music is the universal language; speak it with emotion, listen with a passion.

Bill Morgan · Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Great stuff!!!!

Budda · Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 80

Just trolling through older threads, and thought this one needed re-reading. Good stuff, here.

And, tying it to the newer thread here:

http://www.online-discussion.com/RobbenFord/viewtopic.php?t=1274

So, I thought I would add something I've been using.

To cop the "Chord Over Chord" type of thinking, while still getting that Mm 1/2 step above a V chord:

Play the 2 m7b5 Arpeggios a Whole Step apart.

EX: Over D7

Play Cm7b5 and Dm7b5.

Weaving back and forth between these 2 Arpeggios will help kill that rancid, "Playing Scales" aftertaste.

Laughing

marinblues · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:14 am Post subject:

A "human Band in a Box"!

I loved that. Very Happy

marinblues · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:27 am Post subject:

I've been thinking about scales and tone in the past year or so and I somehow feel that my playing got - worse Sad

I think its because when I playing my concentration in diverted from the music itself to the technicalities of it.

Maybe its that way my brain works....

Marin
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-> my stuff

Leftbender · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject:

The brain is quicker then the hand. Or is the hand quicker then the brain? Question

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"Don't play what's there, play what's not there" Miles Davis

marinblues · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:26 am Post subject:

Budda · Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 80

So, any more Tips?

Anybody ever use MM Chords for Subs?

fenderfeet · Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 5

I guess that its all down to levels of application and ones abilies to learn/understand. I have read a lot of the books and watched the vids but yet I struggle intensely to even grasp the basics! Its frustrating and I wonder how things might have been with just a bit of theory in place.
Got a feeling I'll never know.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-AYt2FhYJ6E

Budda · Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 80

fenderfeet,

are you speaking specifically about Melodic Minor? Or, about Theory in general?

If you're wanting to get a better handle on those "Outside' sounds, one thing I would suggest is to just take a regular old Chord, and change just 1 of the Notes. Maybe move a Note 1 Fret up, or 1 Fret Down. Listen to how the Chord sounds now.

Is it "Tense"? "Dull"? "Abrupt"? "Tangy"? etc. How would you describe it? There's no wrong answer. Use whatever words you think describe it.

Now, play a Tune you already know, and see if you can find a place in the Song, that could sound cool with a little of that "Tense" feeling. And try that same move out there.

Maybe try and see where the occasional Augmented or Diminished Chord would sound Cool.

Just kind of find an interesting Sound you like, and figure out how to reproduce the same effect, in different Fretboard Positions. One at a time.

Gotta soak it up, before you can wring it out.

Hope this helps.

fenderfeet · Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 5

Thanks for the reply Bud!,

It is M/Minor mainly but I also suffer from lots of basic theory knowledge - I guess that you dont progress with one without the basics of the other.

Your response is good and I like your approach - and It seems that I can forget about the books for a while - I think you are correct, for me, at this stage, its only gonna progress with feel!

Thanks

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uqEleA01NhA

Budda · Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 80

I hope it does help, Bro.

Maybe you should start a new Thread called "Acquiring Those "Outside" Sounds", or something similar?

Then , maybe all the Brainpower on this Forum will be able to chime in with some good Ideas and Concepts.

It could be a pretty interesting Discussion, I think.

stratnut · Member Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 13

To the scale basher guy. You have a great point. I'm a perfect (well nobody's perfect) example of a guy who knows a lot of theory and is only a mediocre player. I can only hope that my awareness of my mediocrity will somehow enable me to improve. Its always been a real struggle to figure out how to apply scales in a musical way. Some notes of the scale work better than others. I've known about the melodic minor subs for years but I've never really figured out how to insert it effectively in my music. So the other guys have a good point too.

I took lessons from the mind blowing great and graciuos Tuck Andress years ago and HE said, " If you don't copy the masters excactly you are doomed to mediocrity". He's right. Guys who are able to internalize the sounds other greats have made, regardless of what you call it, are way ahead of guys like me who seem to want to reinvent the musical wheel.

I need lessons.