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Red Lady - hypothetical question
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Bill Morgan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2003
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Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Red Lady - hypothetical question Reply with quote

Some of you may remember that I have Robben's Red Lady from the Tiger Walk tour in Europe in (I think) '97. The nut welded to the end of the truss rod broke off during the tour rendering the guitar non-adjustable and leaving it with a fair amount of relief. The guitar was sold to a friend of mine and eventually ended up with me.

The guitar is playable, but you need strong fingers. And it's probably the best sounding RF model I ever played. So here's the question:

Which of the following would you do?

1. Keep it as-is considering what it is?
2. Keep it but have it repaired to make it more playable (according to Gene Baker this would involve replacing the fingerboard, meaning it would no longer be the guitar that Robben played)?
3. Sell it as-is?
4. Have it repaired and then sell it?

I have kept it as I got it considering its history, but as I get older and the economy gets worse, I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't pass it on to someone else. Just thinking here folks, but would appreciate any suggestions or comments anyone cares to offer. Thanks.

Bill
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Lazy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill
Defiantly keep it. Get it repaired. I am sure that any good repairer will be able the remove and then reuse the fingerboard. So it will remain as original but the main thing is that it is playable. This I believe is the most important thing. Good instruments make good music which is a joy for all. The provenance of the guitar will intrinsically remain.
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Daved
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... tough decision, Bill.

Things to think about:

If you keep it as is, it has historical value, but how how much (in $$ value) is purely up for debate, because as a musical instrument all it's now worth is basically is as a wall decoration... a donation to the wall of your local Hard Rock Cafe, LOL, along with so many other broken guitars that have gone the same route. I look at those wall hangings and appreciate that they once rocked the world, but I quickly loose interest because they are now has-beens and I pity that they can no longer do the thing that made them once so honored and respected.

Personally, I see the most value in a relic of this sort, if it CAN be restored, as a performing instrument, rather than as a wall hanging curiosity.

So, if you have the desire and the money to restore it, I'd probably go that route. You see all the time on those 2 TV shows ("Pickers", and the hock shop one) where they find or acquire old useless rusted broken artifacts, spend a lot of money to restore them (new parts, paint, etc) and the piece suddenly has tons of value because now it looks like new and performs as new and it's historical value can be fully realized and appreciated once again rather than saying, "See that lump of rust on that expensive pedestal? It once was a priceless heirloom or artifact!".

If you want to put the money into it (and a broken truss rod will not be a cheap repair, especially if you're attempting to restore, rather that merely repair), then do your research. Inquire around to various luthiers about having it restored, not just repaired. You may find one who might have the knowledge and experience or creativity to cut off the old fretboard, reuse it, and at least attempt to keep the guitar as pristine as possible.

If an historic guitar has badly worn frets, one would probably replace them (and keep the old frets, covered in all their historic flesh flakes and DNA. in a baggy with the guitar) so the guitar could continue to be played and potentially make more history.
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DaveH
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless Baker uses epoxy to glue the fret board on, it can be removed and reused. The most common glues for luthiery are either hide glue or aliphatic resin glue. Both are softened by heat and moisture.
Either way, it's major surgery.
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Bill Morgan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments guys. I forgot to mention that one of the distinctive features of this guitar is that Robben removed most of the finish from the back of the neck giving it a rather unique look. Removing and reinstalling the fingerboard would almost certainly destroy that aspect of the guitar.

All things considered, including the current lack of funds for a major repair, I think the poor old girl is destined to continue living in my closet for the time being. It's a waste because it is a fine guitar and sounds incredible, but hopefully whoever inherits it when I'm gone will give it the attention it deserves.

Bill
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Bill Morgan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveH wrote:
Unless Baker uses epoxy to glue the fret board on, it can be removed and reused. The most common glues for luthiery are either hide glue or aliphatic resin glue. Both are softened by heat and moisture.
Either way, it's major surgery.


Gene didn't make this guitar, but he was involved in the RF's in the beginning and probably knows as much about them as anybody. He seemed to think that removing the fingerboard would mean replacing it, but I suppose, given enough time and money, it could be done without destroying the old fingerboard.

Bill
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edpesco
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Lady - hypothetical question Reply with quote

Bill Morgan wrote:
I have kept it as I got it considering its history, but as I get older and the economy gets worse, I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't pass it on to someone else. Bill

I suggest you pass it to someone else and this someone is exactly me! Easy solved problem isn't it? no reason to be appreciattive for this wonderful solution, it just came to my mind by chance somehow...
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Bill Morgan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Red Lady - hypothetical question Reply with quote

edpesco wrote:
Bill Morgan wrote:
I have kept it as I got it considering its history, but as I get older and the economy gets worse, I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't pass it on to someone else. Bill

I suggest you pass it to someone else and this someone is exactly me! Easy solved problem isn't it? no reason to be appreciattive for this wonderful solution, it just came to my mind by chance somehow...


OK, you pass me a large bag full of money, and I'll pass you the guitar! Sounds like a good plan to me. Very Happy

Bill
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Danny
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would removing the fretboard destroy the sanded down back of the neck? I feel like there's got to be something I'm not getting here...at the most you would just have the sanded-down neck and then new binding for the fretboard!
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telefunk1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guitars are meant to be played and this one no doubt has a lot of music left in it to be shared with the world.

Sell it to Ed, he does not have enough guitars and needs more!
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edpesco
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Lady - hypothetical question Reply with quote

Bill Morgan wrote:
edpesco wrote:
Bill Morgan wrote:
I have kept it as I got it considering its history, but as I get older and the economy gets worse, I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't pass it on to someone else. Bill

I suggest you pass it to someone else and this someone is exactly me! Easy solved problem isn't it? no reason to be appreciattive for this wonderful solution, it just came to my mind by chance somehow...


OK, you pass me a large bag full of money, and I'll pass you the guitar! Sounds like a good plan to me. Very Happy

Bill


Bill, you're such a material girl, shame Sad
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Bill Morgan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny wrote:
Why would removing the fretboard destroy the sanded down back of the neck? I feel like there's got to be something I'm not getting here...at the most you would just have the sanded-down neck and then new binding for the fretboard!


The finish wasn't removed evenly, so it left a distinctive pattern on the back of the neck. I'm not sure that could be maintained. But in any case, replacing the fretboard makes it a different guitar, so it probably doesn't matter at that point.

Bill
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Bill Morgan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

telefunk1 wrote:
Guitars are meant to be played and this one no doubt has a lot of music left in it to be shared with the world.

Sell it to Ed, he does not have enough guitars and needs more!


Good point. I'm sure Ed needs it for his small collection. Maybe I should sell him the Elite, MIJ and Flame too. That would round out his collection nicely! Very Happy

Bill
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Bill Morgan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Red Lady - hypothetical question Reply with quote

edpesco wrote:
Bill, you're such a material girl, shame Sad


Too bad my landlord doesn't feel that way. Maybe I could trade the guitar for a few months rent!

Bill
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edpesco
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Lady - hypothetical question Reply with quote

Bill Morgan wrote:
edpesco wrote:
Bill, you're such a material girl, shame Sad


Too bad my landlord doesn't feel that way. Maybe I could trade the guitar for a few months rent!

Bill


does your landord play guitar?
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