Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Behind You..
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Robben with John Scofield
PierreL wrote:
Just saw on TGP that they have scheduled a string of dates together in NYC in December at the Blue Note.
Another great gig I will not attend
Ha.. I know that feeling PierreL.. kills me sometimes. John Scofield? I'd settle for Robben playing with Elma Fudd on Bass and Robbie the Robot on sticks.. (Sure, Robbie's a bit claw fisted, but what he lacks in finesse, he more than makes up during load-in and out) _________________ Creativity is more important than knowledge..
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: Robben with Scofield
Robben, Fudd and Robbie? Not another "supergroup"?!?
Can't really see the styles of the two meshing successfully. Scofield's guitar tone is horrid and his playing is far from emotive, way to cerebral for my taste. And Robben's playing is complex, yet expressive; and his tone is superb. I had the opportunity to see Scofield play 3 or 4 years ago and was VERY disappointed.
Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Behind You..
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Robben with Scofield
zingy wrote:
Robben, Fudd and Robbie? Not another "supergroup"?!?
Can't really see the styles of the two meshing successfully. Scofield's guitar tone is horrid and his playing is far from emotive, way to cerebral for my taste. And Robben's playing is complex, yet expressive; and his tone is superb. I had the opportunity to see Scofield play 3 or 4 years ago and was VERY disappointed.
Supergroup? Hell yeah! Wont Ginger Baker be pissed he missed out on that gig..
Totally agree on Schofield's playing.. all the tone and emotion of a dial-up modem.. The sort of music they have you dissect at music schools as if the intellectualizing of the means, justifies the ends.
Scofield always says he's into blues.. just hope he's brushed up a little since this clip.. just reaks of "jazz guy slumming it".. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ler4KKEcHDY
But hey, having said that, I don't want anyone to take a bit of forum p*ss-taking too seriously.. I'm sure it will be a successful gig. Robben is always very generous as a player and superb at subtly adapting his approach to the benefit of the music. He will bring Schofield closer to the blues and Robben's tone will anchor whatever Scofield puts out.. if I was in town, I'd be there. _________________ Creativity is more important than knowledge..
I actually like John Scofield's music. Sure it's different of Robben's, but he's done some great and interesting stuff as well. I particularly appreciate his groovier stuff, like Up All Night or Uberjam, or the CD with Medeski Martin and Wood.
I think it can be an interesting mix with Robben's sensibilities.
Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Behind You..
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:15 am Post subject:
Sure, I totally respect that view and understand how people could get into Scofield.. So on a serious note, it's interesting to think what approach Scofield will take..
Do you think he will go down the line of the bluesier stuff from his jazz book, which is still miles away from what most people would think of as contemporary blues.. or whether he will try and go down the line of a born-again bluesman, somewhat like the youtube? _________________ Creativity is more important than knowledge..
Wow. I'm a bit surprised at some of the reactions I'm seeing to Scofield in these posts. Have any of you even seen him play over the last decade? Robben is one of my favorite guitar players, and so is Scofield. Both of them are Miles alumni, both of them are comfortable playing in several genres, both of them are unique and have an instantly recognizable voice. Just killer musicians and guitar players.
Scofield, however, has explored a bit more ground stylisticly (IMO.) Uberjam and Up All Night, as well as the MMW collaborations were really timely, modern and genre-busting. His trio stuff with Steve Swallow and Bill Stewart is more post-bop. The Piety Street thing actually didn't do much for me, but I did like the Ray Charles disc a lot.
The comment about Scofield's tone hasn't applied for decades (his tone in the 80s was not what I aim for, but it's evolved a lot over the years and it's really unique and tasty. His articulations and inflections are really vocal and evocative; add the effects he started exploring with his younger bands and you've got a guy with a real voice on the instrument. As for playing with emotion—he hasn't become one of the most respected musicians by playing technically. Miles' grabbed players who could tear it up...and who understood the history of music and improvisation. You can be sure that both Robben and John spent many years transcribing solos and we can all learn from analyzing their solos and comping in the same way.
I've already bought tix to one of the sets in Dec; seeing these two incredible musicians, both at the top of their form and defining modern guitar playing, will be a fascinating experience and it'll be great to see how they affect each other.
I hope everyone who wants to see them gets a chance!
Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Behind You..
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:52 am Post subject: Re: soc & robben
Hi pchadwic, like I said before, I respect and understand why people like Scofield.. and I sure don't want to generate any anguish for you.. like I said before:
Redback wrote:
edit.... I don't want anyone to take a bit of forum p*ss-taking too seriously.. I'm sure it will be a successful gig.
edit... if I was in town, I'd be there.
The main point of the OP was that it isn't possible for him to be in NY on the night and that's the way it is for me as well. I love the fact Robben jumps into new formats and collaborations, it's one of his great strengths.. but the reality is, most of those situations can't be toured globally, so that's the way it's going to be for most of us. Don't take that as a lack of interest.
pchadwic wrote:
I hope everyone who wants to see them gets a chance!
I couldn't agree more, hope you get there and can post a review for those of us that can't make it.
Cheers, _________________ Creativity is more important than knowledge..
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: Re: soc & robben
pchadwic wrote:
The comment about Scofield's tone hasn't applied for decades
Please, read the comments more carefully. I saw him play 3 or 4 years ago and his tone was horrid. Trebly, drenched in chorus and harmonizing effects and his phrasing was choppy, harsh and very unintuitive. I think he was playing on a Mesa MK I and being a Mesa player myself, I just can't figure out how he managed to get such a square, harsh tone from such a smooth amp. 2 hours of (mostly) disappointment.
I know he played a whole lot of styles and played with legends, but you can't dictate taste, sorry. Like I said - it's too cerebral for my taste, I much prefer someone, who knows how to "sing" with the guitar - Robben, Trucks, Green, Benson, Lane, Timmons et al. To me, Scofield's type of playing is more akin to typewriting - pressing the individual tones instead of connecting them. It's great for bebop, fusion and other styles that really make flurries of notes shine, but blues? Not for my ears. It all just comes down to a matter of taste.
His funk and blues playing simply do not connect with me, it is as if he plays it the way he learned it (or the way he was taught) instead of feeling it. The bends are mechanical and his structure is theoretically amazing, yet sonically awkward.
I know I'm ranting, but I learned a lot from his guitar books and I was really let down after hearing so much hype about him from famous musicians, as well as from friends.
EDIT: But I'd still go and see John and Robben play together, just to see how their musical dialogue develops.
EDIT no.2: I've listened to Piety Street. The band is great, but John just doesn't fit. The first few bars of guitar (after the piano intro) of That's Enough gives you a clear picture of what you're in for. Off-key bends (solo on Motherless Child - ugh!), sharply played tones and a shallow vibrato. And the CD is full of that It's only when he switches into jazz mode does the thing get a bit more groovy - chord riffs, octave grooves and wide intervallic interplay.
Wow , man you think too much.
My bad for jumping in there .This situation is insane .
For each , his color . But , but , but .
Yes you are free , and that's cool.
I discovered Scofield with Miles Davis , ....The first LP 'Star people (?) "
puzzled me ......... But it was a matter of opening my ears. I really loved DECOY, wow what a groove, what a tone ,Wow. what a style . Then all his post miles Davis bands killed me , etc............blabla......................
and blablabla ....... This leading me to the Uber jam period , yum yum what a piece of cake ...................
Now if you want to make you a favor , find the " i don't need no doctor" clip on U tube , the one with john Mayer................You will enjoy something .
That very kind of thing so cool that if Robben Ford watched this he might have think : We have to play together................. _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=147748
I still stand by what I wrote - Scofield is great at riffs, uses too much effects (the reverse at solo intro is plain horrible), the dry guitar tone is killing me and the underdeveloped and uneven vibrato (3:06 anyone?) coupled with the off-key and sharp bends... (bending and vibrato, in the words of BB King, are "a bluesman's way to sing") . Like I said before, I just look/listen for different things.
I have a feeling that Scofield just started to get into the more gospel/blues guitar, the vocal-like soloing and that is why he's pairing up with more expressive blues players. And if that makes him a "better" (IMO) player and closer to my taste - I'm all for it!!!
I don't feel like I'm thinking too much, I just like to keep things well organised and focused (I get a whole lot lot of music and have to wade through tons of material, so I can sort out the things I have to work out on guitar, piano, bass or sax).
Anybody know of any other (recent) Scofield collaborations with blues guitar players?
Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Behind You..
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:23 am Post subject:
The funny thing is, I just saw a clip on youtube of Lou Reed playing Jealous Guy.. the discussion shares some similarities to this thread and an important difference. There are comments like.. "Lou killed that song..." "Lou's awesome.." and the people share their "personal" views.
The amusing difference is how people talk about jazz players in a totally different way of other players. Armed with history and theory they often endeavour to "prove" why someone should agree with them.
There are literally millions of guys play blues around the world and plenty of tracks released every year.. Nobody bats an eye if you say, "Didn't get into it.." "Didn't like his tone.." or whatever.
But add the altered tones, now he's a jazz guy and if you make the same type of comment, fans invariably question your knowledge of jazz, or accuse you of being close minded, or tell you you've not invested enough time in understanding the guy.
Blueloster, I totally respect your opinion and defend your right to put it forward. Still I have to say, it would be more pleasant to receive and possibly more effective if your enthusiasm for Scofield's playing was at the center of the points instead of distractions that can come across as negative.
Bluelobster wrote:
Edit .... This situation is insane .
Does saying your just not moved by Scofield's playing demonstrates insanity?
Bluelobster wrote:
Edit: ..... But it was a matter of opening my ears.
By implication, anyone that doesn't get Schofield is closed minded?
Please, let's not attack the messenger. I think the cause wasn't helped much by the clip you mentioned. Particularly given the context is blues, correct? In that context, Zingy's comments are fair and accurate. Mayer is playing with a genuine blues tone (Albeit, directly lifted from SRV) Scofield's guitar is heavily soaked in chorus and has more in common with Scott Henderson's '80 synth tones than blues. He seems to lose his way in that style of blues.
But to demonstrate my support for your position, I found this clip of Scofield with MMW. Some might arue it's not a traditional blues, but his guitar tone is far more conducive to blues and the setting is far more typical for Scofield. The familiarity seems to trigger ideas in Scofield that are more appropriate to the setting and with better execution.
If I was a betting man, I'd reckon this is far closer to what can be expected when he plays with Robben.
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