Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 401 Location: College Station, TX
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:55 pm Post subject:
"Aeolian and the Bicky-Booms", now appearing... love it!
My wife took my daughter to see the Dixie Chicks and when they got back I asked her about the band (she knew I would want to know) and when she told me Roscoe and David Grissom were in the band I wished I had gone to the concert with them!
Its not the low B that gives me problems, it is the other end of the tonal spectrum and the tendency to loose the groove (and bottom) by playing in the registers that rightfully belong to guitar players! Its a turf thang.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject:
telefunk1 wrote:
Its not the low B that gives me problems, it is the other end of the tonal spectrum and the tendency to loose the groove (and bottom) by playing in the registers that rightfully belong to guitar players! Its a turf thang.
I hear ya TF. There's one guy around here who restrings a 24 fret 5 so that the bottom is E and he has a high C. Spends all his time noodling up top. When he got the Ecoplex, I stopped playing with him.
Last year at NAMM, there were bass players all over, outnumbered guitarists 3 to 1 at least. Paired up in booths trading heads and solos on these wonderful pieces of woodwork. They don't need us anymore. We've been replaced! _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: 4 String Bass vs. 5 and 6 String
It all depends on the player, the situation and the purpose. Having said that Jimmy Earl is my favorite player for Robben's band (and he uses a 4 String), I also dig Jimmy Haslip on 6 string upside down bass. Jimmy sure knows how to keep the groove going in a trio setting, while still taking incredible solos and doing "bicky booms." On the high end, have you guys listened to Steve Swallow? He is one of the most important bass players, having played with Jim Hall, Carla Bley, Toots Thielmans, and just about everybody on the east coast. His 5 string is tuned E,A,D,G,C, and he is all over the neck, playing interesting stuff and implying a lot more. Also, when Robben left Miles Davis' band, after using Garth Webber for a few months, Miles replaced him with a second bass player, Foley, who is credited on the Miles records as playing "lead bass." Sure, I would rather have heard Robben (who was fantastic with Miles), or maybe even Garth (who sounds a little too much like Robben and not enough like his own person), but Foley's stuff was interesting too.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: 4 String Bass vs. 5 and 6 String
gitarz*r*us wrote:
or maybe even Garth (who sounds a little too much like Robben and not enough like his own person)
As of late, Garth has really developed his own voice. If you listen to Man on a Mission where they both play, it's really easy to tell which is which. I had the good fortune a few years ago to hear some demos that Garth had done that were more in the genre of the quasi-metal that was used for television commercials of the time. He nailed that, showing there was much more to him than the Robbenesque blues. He's going to be back at JJ's on the 17th with Cliff Coulter and the Blue Monday crew. I highly recommend this show. At the last one, I was amazed at how many parts from pop and R&B songs that Garth knew. I don't know when it was, but he had to have paid his dues in some cover bands to know all this stuff. Either that or he's got one of those incredible memories that learns something once and never forgets it. With Cliff kicking bass, this band turns on a dime. Garth was not only right there, transposing into wherever they were, but even suggesting things that the rest picked up on.
As for bassists (besides Cliff Coulter's left hand, which is right up there) the killer part of the Jing Chi shows was that even with Vinnie going full tilt, Jimmy was grooving like a mother. He always knew what time it was. At times it got so wild that even Robben looked uncomfortable, but Jimmy just kept the pocket alive.
I don't remember the guys name but I saw this fellow with a 6 string playing with Ron Eschte who had a midi set up where he played B3 parts on the upper strings at the same time he walked the bottom. Then Eschte would walk the bottom of his chords on his 7 string while the bassist soloed. Incredible. I asked him if he'd listened to Charlie Hunter and he told me that he'd heard of Charile, but never listened to him. Where do these guys come from? _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:30 pm Post subject: foley
Hi, In 1987 i've seen Foley with Miles he was playing Guitar : a black steinberger. He was as boring as pete cosey. Then in 1988 he came with his blue piccolo, a dress and earrings. Strange.
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: 4 String Bass vs. 5 and 6 String
gitarz*r*us wrote:
* * *
Sure, I would rather have heard Robben (who was fantastic with Miles), or maybe even Garth (who sounds a little too much like Robben and not enough like his own person), but Foley's stuff was interesting too.
Have to disagree with you here, but Aeolian is right. In "Man On A Mission," you can easily tell who, Garth or Robben, is playing which guitar part. Their styles and phrasing are really not even similar, unless you base the judgment on couple of sweep picked cliche lines that a lot of Bay Area players use. Listen a little more carefully, and you will hear the difference. Listen to some of the live recordings of Garth with Bill Champlin ("Begging you Baby") and then decide whether Garth sounds too much like Robben.
OK Jing Chia pets- get out the slings and arrows. Is there anyone else besides me out there that is less than excited about JC 3? I have posted my negative reaction to the first CD, and I got the Live CD over the holiday break. I listened to it pretty much non stop last week on a drive from College Station TX to New Orleans and back and still can't get too excited about this stuff. Even live the songwriting is a downer and not much more than an excuse to wank over trite fusion progressions. MD Blues is pretty cool, but that is about the highlight for me. Oh well. Opinions are like...you know.
And another thing - I really miss bass players using 4 string basses! Roscoe on a old Fender speaks to me more than Jimmy and his 6 strings.
Hi Telefunken , i am sorry no slings no arrows, just try to listen it over & over, may be not in the car , you seems to be pretty touchy in some way,
don't get me wrong , i remember this thread on the other board, so it looks like you nerver listened to UBER JAM from J.Scofield, and you're unable to put some hidden tributes to Miles Davis in perspective ( i love that kind of music) therefore i am willing to think you're kind of Brand X fan ( very good band, remember phil collins) or you just keep on runnin' on Good ol' blues. so you're just like me but i never did any thread to tell the board i don't like the last CD , and i am not going to attempt to say i think the production sucks, the sound is thin and blablabla whoop whoop (J.Hendrix)
So get a load of wathever you enjoy the most and listen to the 2 CD's in a row with a mantra in your head : i appreciate this stuff, i love this stuff, i wanna play like Roby, i am the king of the cosmos, i am a tiger , i am walking.
Cheers and happy new year your Blob.
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 401 Location: College Station, TX
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:47 am Post subject:
BLOB - you make me laugh! My mantra right now is - I hope this damn cold goes aways soon so I can taste beer again!
Not touchy, just opinionated - which I hope is still allowed in our politically correct world. And my tastes are very diverse - I have Jing Chi on the office shelf now with Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, Scofield, McLaughlin, and Stern, Stones, and an assortment of Hammond B3 releases (Jimmy Smith, Soulive, Organ-ized), and of course Freddie King, so I think my comments on JC3 are valid. Meaning I am not stuck in a blues rut or a fusion rut (or any rut) and appreciate different stuff IF it adds something to the genre as well as wakes me up by speaking to my inner sense of the groove. Nuff said.
Brand X, huh? Collins back when he used to play drums - never really got into them.
What I am listening to now and digging are 1) new Albert Lee CD and 2) Sonny Landreth CD. Good stuff.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject:
telefunk1 wrote:
BLOB - you make me laugh! My mantra right now is - I hope this damn cold goes aways soon so I can taste beer again!
Not touchy, just opinionated - which I hope is still allowed in our politically correct world. And my tastes are very diverse - I have Jing Chi on the office shelf now with Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, Scofield, McLaughlin, and Stern, Stones, and an assortment of Hammond B3 releases (Jimmy Smith, Soulive, Organ-ized), and of course Freddie King, so I think my comments on JC3 are valid. Meaning I am not stuck in a blues rut or a fusion rut (or any rut) and appreciate different stuff IF it adds something to the genre as well as wakes me up by speaking to my inner sense of the groove. Nuff said.
I love B3, the Ricky Peterson cut on Organized was so vicious that I went out and bought some albums, unfortunately they were all smooth jazz and nothing measured up to that one cut.
As for JC1,L,3... I think Robben is really tryng to make Kind of Blue. He tried with Tiger Walk, he kept changing sidemen over the last few years looking for that special synergy, and tried again with JC. IMHO he does better having played with a song for awhile. There is a fusion thing he wrote for Miles called the Chief that has never been recorded but he does live from time to time when the right sidemen are there, recently as an intro to Help the Poor. This thing was great to begin with but has evloved into something really spectacular. I think the Tiger Walk tour sounded better than the album, especially with Billy, Myron, and Joe (I think the group with Novack played too fast and didn't get into the soul of the songs). And I think that JC Live sounded better than the album. I'd love for Robben to take a band of great players on the road for 6 months and work out new tunes, then commit them to a recording. After he has broken them in and gotten comfortable, and the starch is washed out of them. That's when he is at his most magical.
Yours for being opinionated, and not PC
"I may have changed my opinion, but not the fact that I am right" Ashleigh Brilliant. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: Let's keep it on a positive level
Hey Bluelobster, Telefunk, & Aoelian:
Let's agree to keep our debate here on a positive level. I am concerned that too much negativity could chase away Daved and others from participating. I have no problem with expressing opinions, just let's not start saying things that serve no real purpose other than to put someone else down or make them feel wierd (Brand X????). Remember: Daved stopped participating in the other message board because some people started getting too wierd and negative.
I agree with Aeolian that Robben did try to do something reminiscent of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" period on "Tiger Walk": he even said once in a clinic that I attended that he was going for something like Miles did during that period when he composed "Oasis." I think he related it to "Flamenco Sketches," but it might have been "Milestones." Anyway, it was a three-part modal composition of Miles' with an AABBCC form that he had in mind when he wrote Oasis. Has anybody else heard Robben quote from "Milestones" in his performances? I have (and I think I can hear it on one cut on Jing Chi, the studio recording, in particular), and it always brings a smile to my face! By the way, I believe Robben did record "The Chief," which he wrote for Miles. However, I understand that that was one of the tracks he recorded that GRP/Stretch would not release (or release the rights for) because it was not "commercial" enough, hence causing Robben to find a more congenial label on which to record.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:29 pm Post subject:
Wow! To think that Dave Grusin and Chick Corea wouldn't want to issue the Chief. (especially Chick) Because it might not sell to their audience? What is this world coming to? Are they even in control of their own label? Just think of where we would be if someone hadn't released them because it wasn't "commercial" enough.
BTW, I agree about keeping things positive. Sarcasam is easy to type in a light hearted frame of mind, but it may not always be read in that manner. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Hey Guitar'you , you ain't no moderator, so pleasseeeeeeeeeeeee.
Putting Telefunk down or make it feel weird ? Dare i would i'll be a moron.
I think you have to go back and really listen to Brand X. No Kiddin'!
If you don't know ask. And to make a long storyshort i think telefunk is able to defend himself and he got fun anyway, and he knows brand X.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:50 am Post subject:
Here's an idea. If you think someone has mis-interpreted you or they have offended you in some way, send them a Private Message and explain yourself. I also tend to give the benefit of the doubt to those for whom english is a second language. I was part of a pretty lively SRV debate awhile back but from the PM's I traded with some of the others, I was comfortable that what was posted on the board was differences in taste and opinion which is what makes this board great. We all have an attraction to Robben but we come at it from different places. Like Telefunk, I have fairly diverse tastes but like some others on the board I tend to stick to favorites. I find myself constantly going "who?" when listening to other guitarists talking. So my opinions are based on what I am aware of, and I work at (not always sucessfully) to remain open to the new ideas of others. This board has brought up bunches of new artists that I want to seek out. Some similar in direction to Robben, which you would expect from this board, and some more heavily into aspects of the genres Robbens touches on. And even some of Robben's roots.
We had the little debate over Garth's assimilation of Robben's playing into his own style and how that style has evolved. gitarz*r*us lists as being in the bay area, so he may have had the fortune of listening to Garth for many years. I've only heard him over the last 5 or 6. He may have a better foundation for his opinion. I am just tossing in what I feel today. Same with bass players. It may be that both of us have played with some of the same bass players and liked the same ones or liked different ones. For all I know, we may have played together at some jam night somewhere and either liked each others style (more likely if we both respect and enjoy Robben) or didn't like the others playing at all. Doesn't matter. We play or participate in music because it touches something in us. We participate in this board because Robben's playing touches something in us. The rest is just the diversity of the members of the board.
Cheers, _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 401 Location: College Station, TX
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:58 am Post subject:
Well, I am not sure where to start. My first inclination is to be bitchy and snide, but it is true that sarcasm does not translate well over the internet! And I don't really have the energy now anyway - I am off to a funeral in an hour or so because an old friend, a guitar player and good blues guy, passed away over the weekend. Very sad, but life goes on and I want to put this bump in the road behind me.
My intent in my oringinal comment re JC3 was not to insult anyone else, just being honest in my opinion. I realize there is fine line here which I try not to cross, because like everyone else I appreciate the involvement of Daved and the direct link we as a community have to Robben. Most other boards do not have this luxury and I applaud Daved for participating and putting up with us. On the other hand, I believe in the free exchange of opinions - if they are articulated well and argued through experience, knowledge and critical thinking (yes, I am a pointy headed academic). My comments on SRV and JC 1 on earlier posts are examples of this. How many of us read boards where all the posts just say: this sucks, or I love this. Tell me why and I will listen - there has to be a reason. So this is where I am coming from. And I think any artist would appreciate this kind of dialog of his/her work.
I also tend to treat this board as if we were all sitting around drinking beer and talking about stuff - joking and sarcasm and non-PC opinions accepted. All friendly and accepting of each others tastes and opinions. This is an easy trap to fall into on the internet so I will mind my Ps and Qs as they say. So, if I have overstepped my bounds here I apologize - and like A says, if you have a beef with me by all means send a message.
A - Drop Shot, the Ricky Peterson cut on Organ-ized. What a great tune! I put it on repeat and just drive down the road with a big old smile on my face...
All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3Next
Page 2 of 3
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
and happy new year your 
Blob. 
