Robben Ford Discussion

[Crash]

Sorry if this is a repeat question, I looked and did not see this asked previously. I am curious as to if you (anyone here) have an opinion of who makes the closest Dumble sounding amp. I have had fairly decent luck with a Tony Bruno amp (60 watt head as I recall) in the studio, with a 4x12 Marshall cabinet played at insane volumes in an iso booth. Have you had any experience with Skrydstrup amps? I heard some samples and they seemed somewhat Dumble like, but a bit brighter, at least the samples I heard were. The TwoRock amps were another amp that gave me that Dumble quality as well when I heard it. I guess what I am asking is, what amps out there have you heard that were the closest in Dumble sound? There seems to be an obsession with getting the Dumble sound, which I guess I understand considering what some of the Dumbles sell for. I am interested in what you think in regards to this. Thanks.

Crash

[nineacres]

You might like to check out Larry Carlton's website, under "forum". Strangely enough, I was poking around there earlier today and found the following:

"There is a company called Two-Rock at www.two-rock.com that sells a line of amps that are Dumble inspired. Their Custom model is a direct clone of a dumble. There is another company called Skrydstrup Engineering at http://www.skrydstrup.com he builds a killer version of a dumble clone. His sound bites are Robben Ford tunes and are killer. He is the player by the way, his name is Steen."

Hope this helps
Dave
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[Crash]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I was lucky enough to hear the Tony Bruno and the TwoRock side by side in a music store with a guitar player that is looking for a Dumble type sound. Actually this guy sounds a lot like Robben in style. I checked out the Skrystrup as I mentioned in my earlier post, and I have the very demo files that you speak of. I was wondering if any of the Roccaforte, Komet, or any other boutique type amps are close. I forgot to mention that I am not the guitar player here but a sound engineer. While I do play guitar, I am never going to be good enough to be in the hunt for a Dumble, or a Dumble knockoff. That would be like giving a pig a Rolex if you get what I am saying. Thanks again for your speedy reply.

Crash

[Cal]

Check this out.


www.fuchsaudiotechnology.com

[abergdahl]

I own two amp of this style, Mystic Blues by Mystique amps and a Skrydstrup OD50.
First the Skrydstrup - It's NOT bright, it was brighter when it was new but it has kind of matured. It is a VERT good and Flexible amp great clean sound a bit of Vox mixed with a LOT of blackface fender. The OD kan be VERY smooth but the amp can Rock as well.

The Mystic .... more of a beast, VERY revealing amp smooth and rocking every change in pick attack gets out loud en clear. A nice singing OD and it can take a lot of attack with out sounding harsh. I would think that this is as close to the real thing you can get. Some prefer Mystics over "the real thing"

I sound closer to Ford and Carlton on the OD50, you could sat that it colors the guitars tone more that the Mystic, i think Ford and Carlton would sound more like themselves through the Mystic.

I have done ALOT of clips with the OD50 (I have at home the Mystic ís in the rehersal place), the OD50 don't have to be as loud as the Mystic to sound good which makes it a better "bedroom amp".

The Komet is a VERY different amp, its distortion comes from the POWER AMP, all D - style amps rely mostly on preamp OD. The Komet could do Robbens clean sound the overdrive is not like a D style amp, it's just as great but different.

A Roccaforte would be much more Marshall sounding, Clapton Cream era, EVH, AC/DC would be tones you would get with such an amp.

You should try Fuchs as well, the newer amps are said to be great.

Clips: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/abergdahlmusic.htm
(It is not the amp that prevents me from sounding like Robben, nor the guitars - its the players lack of ability)

[Aeolian]

In the US there are two main folks doing Dumblesque amps. Fuchs and Two Rock. I have a Fuchs and there is a member of this board who is a Two Rock distributor. We have each played through the others amp in live situations and I have played through the various Two Rock models in his shop.

Here is my take: First of all, that thick sound you hear from Robben comes from a combination of bright guitars (Tele or humbuckers with ebony fingerboards and tapped pickups) and the near constant muting of the high overtones with his right hand. No combination of guitars and electronics is going to reproduce that sound by itself.

That said, the Two Rocks have more of that midrange thickness in and of themselves, the Fuch's is a tad more Fendery. There is a bit more color to the Two Rocks on the clean channel. Getting the best out of the Two Rock seems to take some knob twisting between the clean, tone bypassed and overdrive sounds. Note that the Dumble and Two Rock have a switch that bypasses the passive tone circuit thus changing the voicing and boosting the signal level compared to wherever the tone controls were set. Robben sets his treble and mid controls around 4 so the boost when they are switched out is fairly noticable. This is what he uses for the "crunch" or slighty distorted sound and when it is added to the overdrive channel it gets that signature "saturated" sound. This circuit is very sensitive to the settings of the rest of the amp and it is possible to get dramatic level changes or totally mush out the overdrive channel when switching this in and out. On the Fuchs, in addition to the tone bypass (which I personally never use and is not footswitchable on my amp) there is a mid boost (which I do have on a second footswitch) that is set up to roughly resemble the voicing and gain increase of Robben's set up when he uses his tone bypass switch. I find that this allows more flexibility in setting the rest of the amp and makes it easier to use in live situations than the Two Rock.

Both are very responsive amps and will react to whatever you do with the guitar. A buddy who has an endorsement deal with another boutique amp manufacturer called my Fuchs "interactive". If you plug Robben or Jeff Beck into one, you will get a tremendous range of expressiveness. But folks are often unprepared for this kind of response and some will have trouble with notes jumping in and out or changing tone inadvertantly. I have seen guys playing thorugh my amp spinning around stunned when a note popped out at them when they expected it to just sponge a bit more.

All the trouble we go through in the search for the holy grail of tone. There are bunches of threads here on the subject. Happy hunting.
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[kirk95]

You can't go wrong with any of these amps.

Two Rock
Fuchs OS
Bruno Super 100

The fabled Dumble tone is a little bit of moving target. Dumble customises each amp he makes to the player he is making it for. So Robben's is different from Carlton's and Steve Kimock and Sonny Landreth's etc.....

I played a Dumble one time at UltraSound in NY and it was very unimpressive. I A/Bed with Two Rocks, Brunos, Trainwrecks, and Komets. Check out my amp tasting adventure: http://www.dhenderson.com/UltraSound/

Also, the player has a lot to do with the tone. His touch and attach and dynamics. Joe Average player playing through Robben's Dumble is still going to sound like Joe Average. Likehwise, Robben Ford through a Blues Junior is still going to sound like Robben.

With all that said, I was on this same Dumble tone mission back in 2000. I was introduced to Two Rocks amps and stop looking any further. I own two Two Rocks today - an Emerald 50 and and Opal. I also run the Two Rock Owner's Community - http://dhenderson.com/TwoRock/index.php. If you are interested in learning more about the Two Rocks, check it out.

There are also tons of Two Rock examples all over my web site - www.dhenderson.com.

Check out my amps here: http://www.dhenderson.com/Rig/index.htm

Studio Two Rock examples:
http://www.dhenderson.com/index2.htm

Live Two Rock Examples:
http://www.dhenderson.com/HBB/HBB%20MP3s%20Page.htm
http://www.dhenderson.com/MP3/SJB/SJBMP3%20-%2012-11-02/

Hope that helps!
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[Bill Morgan]

While not a Dumble clone by any means, the Bad Cat Hot Cat amps are one of my current favorites. Especially the Hot Cat 15 combo. Very satisfying to play through. By using an A/B/Y footswitch, you can combine the clean and overdrive channels and get something similar to an ODS, which can have an odd tendency to sound both clean and overdriven at the same time.

Just something else to think about.

Bill

[Aeolian]

Bill has actually built a couple of Dumble clones himself, see his website.

Schematics for several Dumbles are on the net. But as Kirk mentioned each one is built for a specific customer and tweaked accordingly. The thing that Howard, Andy Fuchs and the guys at K&M (Two Rock) bring is the ability to voice and tweak their circuits to perform the magic the customer is after.

It sounds like you are looking for an amp to have on hand in a studio for folks to use. Maybe you and your most versatile session guy can work with one of the builders to voice an amp so that it is most useful to your client base.
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[Crash]

Holy smoke, what a great bunch of responses. This site is killer with all kinds of knowledge about. I will check out as many of the sound files as I can. I am researching for a buddy of mine more than for myself, as he does not have internet access at this time. My buddy is a really talented player who is on the ever lasting quest for a tone he has in his head. He is quite a "touch" player that plays his amp as much as his guitar. So I don't think he would be freaked by notes jumping out as he is looking for an amp that is that sensitive to his touch...I think. He is the player that A/B'd the Bruno (60 watt or 100 watt, I don't remember) to the Two Rock and while he liked the tone of these amps, they just were not quite right for the amount of cash he was going to throw down for one. ....So the search continues. One of his buddies was supposed to bring an amp called the Scrumptious Monkey to also check out but was unable to get it out of the band lockup. The Scrumptious Monkey is one the latest offerings from Austin based amp builders Fulton Webb and from what I hear is what Eric Johnson is trying out these days. My apologies to all when I mentioned Roccaforte, I meant to say Fuchs in my original post but got them ass backwards in my day of research, before stumbling over to this site.

Here is a link to the recordings we did with the Bruno for those interested in them. It is a strat straight into the Bruno head miced with a SM-57 up close and a Nuemann U-87 back a couple of feet. The F/X were applied in the mix and it is just a bit of verb and some delay.

http://www.abyssmall.com/d8b_buddies.htm


I have always felt to Dumble theory was a moving target as mentioned above. I have heard that really no two sound the same and that some sound down right like crap.

Thanks to all of you guys for the links and information. I will pass this on to my buddy to help quinch his tone thirst.

Crash

[PierreL]

I have heard that Koch was supposed to show at Winter NAMM an amp named Studio Amp, supposed to sound like a Dumble. Never saw anything about it though, even on Koch's website.

[Bill Morgan]

For something really touch sensitive, check out Adam Stark's Fireamp. I haven't played one myself, but I have two friends, both Dumble owners, who have bought Fireamps and both were very impressed by the touch sensitivity of that amp. I don't have the URL handy but it should be easy to find with a Google search.

Bill

[kirk95]

http://www.adamstark.com/docs/fireclip.html
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[iamthewalrus]

At the first Robben clinic I attended he had both his Dumble combo and a BFDR. He played through the Dumble the whole day and after the clinic someone asked him to play through his DR "at volume." Well, it was not much louder than the Dumble but, to my ear, sounded exactly the same. You figure it out.

Cheers!
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[abergdahl]