Robben Ford Discussion

[Bluelobster]

WARNING Robben's Heads .
Today i got a mail asking me if i was involved or have any informations
about a OHN FILTER Video - TIGER WALK Tour - copied and selled on DVD.
As a Robben Fan i did know there was a Ohn Filter video circa 1998, with gary novak on drums among others, i've seen it on a VCD once.

Relating to all of our threads and F.A.Q's in the past i will crudely and roughly ask anybody on this board , and even the few rascals who tried to bid on above the F;;;g Blue Fish on Ebay last month to find one and give the informations to Daved or Dal.

I am a fan and a i am a trader too, but in any way we can afford to let these scumbags runnin' down our musical streets. It arms everyone from me to Robben . ( Sorry i know i am egocentric).
So here is your game for February : Tracking the Evil Tiger Walk DVD.
Hint: i spent one hour on E.Bay , the blue fish was still there but no tiger

[jconstant]

Here's another rat bastard trying to sell bootlegs on ebay. To add insult to injury he's used the artwork from Blue Moon to package it up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2593827481&category=1559

I'll be sending an email to Dal right after this.

jc

[bottom line]

Let's not get huffy about the Ohne Filter shows. I purchased a VHS copy of it a few years ago at a music convention, it is an excellent performance. I have made a DVDR copy of it for myself to watch, I love it as much as my DVDR copy of the Brazil 2000 Direct TV broadcast, and as much as my DVDR copy of the NYC Bottom Line/Jap/BROADCAST... I emphasize BROADCAST because I view these particular shows to be as much a public commodity as Gilligan's Island re-runs. These show were FREE to citizens of those countries, they should NOT, in my opinion, be lumped in with ACTUAL BOOTLEG RECORDINGS WITHOUT ARTIST PERMISSION. See the difference?

[jconstant]

[grant420]

@ bottom line:
If one sells, on Ebay or wherever, a DVDR copy of Ohne Filter from 1997 that was broadcasted for free in Europe, it is still a despicable act against Robben Ford, as he strictly prohibits that sort of thing. It would be no different than if one personally records his show and then sells it on Ebay.
Don't sell his stuff on Ebay, people! That's all I'm asking, and don't split hairs on the semantics about whether or not something is a bootleg, that's not the point. The point is:
DON'T SELL IT
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[bottom line]

Thank God for this forum, where people can exchange ideas and opinions about topics such as this. All-in-all I'd have to say that different people are motivated by different things; the Ebay seller is motivated by the Pursuit Of Money, and the Ebay buyer is motivated by the Pursuit Of Musical Enlightenment. If a person goes on Ebay and buys a copy of something he or she didn't get to see in person because it happened in another country, and if that performance was recorded and broadcast with the artist's knowledge, then that means that the artist's music is reaching a broader audience, which was the artist's goal by doing the gig in the first place. In Robben's case, that buyer will undoubtedly be impressed enough with the performance to purchase other product at Best Buy. In this country, we have, among other shows, Austin City Limits. I have a very hard time believing that any guest artist on that show would be heartbroken if they found out people in other countries were trying to acquire copies of the show they performed on. I see it as Cult Audience Cultivation, other people see it as Artist Exploitation. It is a fine line indeed. Remember the Beatles' performance on Ed Sullivan? Do you think Paul or Ringo are on a crusade to halt trading of that performance?

[Bluelobster]

[Aeolian]

I think this may be a case of "once bitten, twice shy". Robben has been ripped off in the past, and had things he didn't care for released (like the Schitzophonic thing).

Like the disclaimer at the beginning of each NFL game, "this broadcast is for the personal use of our audience", any radio or TV show that Robben or any other performer does is for general public consumption. The laws have defined "personal use" as including making recordings for subsequent re-viewings or time shifting the viewing. Robben allows us attendees to tape the clinics so that we can review the material and get the most personal use out of what he presented. When Tiger Walk was released, Robben went around with a "minus one" CD and played several tunes off the album. The tape I made at the SF Guitar Center stop has better playing than the album IMHO. It will also never leave my house. It is an archive of a great time with 50 folks jammed into GC's PA room and Robben graciously treating us to an advance taste (he had copies there before they were in the stores) of some new tunes.

The distinction Bluelobster makes, and I agree wholeheartedly, is when "personal use" is trancended and becomes "personal profit". This is a clear violation of Robben's "performance rights", same as any studio musician who retains the performance rights to a track they put down.

As to the possible expansion of his fan base, I agree that Robben is missing a golden opportunity here. Even BB King has downloadable clips on his site. As internet savvy folks, we recognize the power of the net to promote and expose new and different music. Many very talented members of this board have clips of their playing on the net and unless Joni Mitchell invites them out on tour, this is the only way they are likely to be found.

That said, Robben clearly does not want unauthorized performances publicly released or his ownership of the performances violated. As fans of the man, we should be the first ones to respect that. Whether we agree with it or not. Regardless of the "wider" audience that might be encouraged to buy more legitimate albums. It is Robben's decision and performance rights and copyright laws are on his side. The first fool to package and market one of Robben's clinics will ruin it for everyone else. Don't let this happen to our brethren.
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[dodgeboy]

If money does not change hands then it is not a "bootleg"
I don't "THINK" Robben would have an issue with some loyal fans trading v.h.s. tapes or c.d.s of unreleased shows. Heres why I "THINK" this.
1- these shows are not "commercially" available...2- if they were we all would buy the high quality,polished version with 5.1 sound anyways....3- it is like free publicity for him when we SHARE his music....4- a strong trading comunity puts the rat bas*$@d bootleggers out of business....no market when we all trade for free...lol
Just my 2 cents......
I would love to see a media tradeing forum on this site. It would be fairly easy to do...check out some of the Dave Matthews sites...antsmarching.com.....nancies.org..ect. they all have trade forums

[iamthewalrus]

This is one of those "genie out of the bottle" situations. There has been a lot of throughful and constructive ideas put forth here. I guess an artist has to be "all in" or "all out" publicly - Grateful Dead were "all in" from the beginning as well as the other artists mentioned. For those of you familiar with artists who are "all in" is there any ever discussion of problems and difficulties with this arrangement?

Cheers!
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