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kirk95
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 Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| juspasinby2003 wrote: | | Aeolian wrote: | | juspasinby2003 wrote: | | Tricky little bugger, isn't it? One of my favs, though. I love the progression in that one. Thanks for reminding me to put it on the player again. |
I just stumbled onto this again recently and have been trying to get this riff on autopilot so I could sing over it and add it to the list. Great twists on the progression. I love that walk up on the 5 (also awkward to phrase and sing over). Is that a 9b5 on the 3? Sounds like it to me but sometimes it sounds different. |
Don't know what to call it exactly, but I think it looks like this:
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The tri tone (Gb and C) implies a dominant 7th chord to me.. either Ab7 b9 b13 or the tri tone sub of D7 #9.
Hey what program are you using for those fret board pic?
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juspasinby2003
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Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| kirk95 wrote: | | juspasinby2003 wrote: | | Aeolian wrote: | | juspasinby2003 wrote: | | Tricky little bugger, isn't it? One of my favs, though. I love the progression in that one. Thanks for reminding me to put it on the player again. |
I just stumbled onto this again recently and have been trying to get this riff on autopilot so I could sing over it and add it to the list. Great twists on the progression. I love that walk up on the 5 (also awkward to phrase and sing over). Is that a 9b5 on the 3? Sounds like it to me but sometimes it sounds different. |
Don't know what to call it exactly, but I think it looks like this:
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The tri tone (Gb and C) implies a dominant 7th chord to me.. either Ab7 b9 b13 or the tri tone sub of D7 #9.
Hey what program are you using for those fret board pic? |
Thanks, David - having some difficulty nailing this one down, but I hear Robben using it quite a bit.
The fret board pic is a crop from "Guitar Power," a nifty little program by Jana Software. Here's a link: http://www.janasoftware.co.uk/ I used the ACDSee screen capture function and then cropped out just the board. |
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kirk95
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Aeolian
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Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: It's an F7(b9) |
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| juspasinby2003 wrote: | I've changed my mind about this chord. The tonality of the chord is diminished. I think here it functions as an F7(b9), a diminished chord alteration, for which F7(b9)/Eb also could be substituted. I don't hear Robben using the Eb in the root, however.
The chord is functioning as a diminished substitute for the IV chord following the F9. So the progression goes, at the last beat of the eighth bar, from the I chord to C7(#5)/Bb and then, in the ninth bar, to the F9 (the IV) for one bar. The progression then substitutes the altered F7(b9) for the F9, for the tenth bar, as you would ordinarily substitute a C dim for the F9. Then it goes back to the the V chord (G7) for four bars and on to the two bar turn around.
Try substituting a C dim chord for the F7(b9), and you'll see what I mean. It's a common substitution, and the F7(b9) is a diminished chord functioning the same way as a C dim in this progression. Of course, you could also follow the bass and play the III chord (Eb7) instead which also sounds good here. Robben, however, seems to favor the diminished chord substitution in most cases.
Here's another grip of the subject chord, the F7(b9):
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By George, I think that's it. Playing along with the CD (since I'm home) I think I also hear him letting the high C (on the E string) ring at times. He doesn't play the Eb but the bass seems to shift and in the soloing he seems to imply the Eb or at least drops what he is doing over the 4 a whole step.
Next, there are some desending arpeggios in the third chorus of the solo that defy me. They also sound like whole step drops but they also sound like dimished to dominant things too. Any ideas?
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juspasinby2003
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Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: It's an F7(b9) |
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| Aeolian wrote: | By George, I think that's it. Playing along with the CD (since I'm home) I think I also hear him letting the high C (on the E string) ring at times. He doesn't play the Eb but the bass seems to shift and in the soloing he seems to imply the Eb or at least drops what he is doing over the 4 a whole step.
Next, there are some desending arpeggios in the third chorus of the solo that defy me. They also sound like whole step drops but they also sound like dimished to dominant things too. Any ideas? |
I shall give it a listen to see if I can find it and get back to you on this. |
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juspasinby2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you mean the guitar solo at time: 2:08? |
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juspasinby2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Here the DNA sequence your ordered:
The numbers below the notes are string numbers (1=high e). Stay on the string last noted until the number changes. The "~" is a slide down, and the "--" is a hammer on. Robben employs an elegant sliding arpeggio starting on the second "G" of the second line for which his playing position is crucial to execute it properly. That's what makes transcribing Robben so difficult sometimes - figuring out his fingering.
Hope this does it for you. BTW: Robben has used this bit before. You hear it all over the place in the first Yellojackets album. |
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juspasinby2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Here is the passage in tab. Just ignore the bar markers - I had to wrestle enough with the software to get this far.
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juspasinby2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:48 am Post subject: Changed My Mind Again |
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Aeolian,
Sorry man, but I've changed my mind again. Now, I don't think the chord is an F7(b9) anymore. Instead, I believe it's an A7(#5)/C# first hit without the C# in the root, and then with the C# on the second hit. I listened to it much more carefully than I did before, and I have to conclude I was wrong the first time.
The A7(#5)/C# just happens to be a tritone substitute for the Eb, which makes perfect sense here. Here's the grip:
The first time around, Robben strums it once without the C# in the root, and then he hits it again with the C#. I don't think he is hitting the A when he plays the C#; so I think he takes his second finger from the A and moves it to the G while his first finger moves from the G to the C#(Db). Listen closely and you'll hear it. I haven't studied the following progressions yet; so I can't say with certainty that he repeats this. Why don't you take it from here and let me know.
I really hope that, if Robben ever hosts a subscription service, he makes lead sheets available to put and end to the drudgery of transcription (along with my stupid errors). |
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kirk95
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003
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Location: Boulder, CO
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Flavum
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Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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I specifically asked Robben about Misdirected Blues at one of his clinics a year ago, and he said "I'm sort of proud of that one - want to know the chords?". Bear in mind that I'm not as advanced in theory as some of you, but this is what I remember -
After the C hammer-on during the verses, he goes to this chord -
(String - Fret - Finger)
A - 6 - 1
D - 6 - 2
G - 7 - 3
B - 8 - 4
E - 8 - 4
But it's the second one that I can't quite remember. I think it's this -
A - 4 - 1
D - 5 - 2
G - 5 - 2
B - 6 - 4
E - 5 - 3
As was mentioned, I hear some movement in this chord, as it's played twice. Not sure what's going on there. I'll have to go to another clinic and ask again. 
Sorry I listed the strings low to high. I know it's awkward. I searched Google for a handy fingerboard chart but came up blank. |
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juspasinby2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Flavum,
Thank you for sharing that with us. Much appreciated! Maybe we can convince Robben to have a "Misdirected Blues" clinic where we can really get to the bottom of this thing. I mean, it's not like he couldn't see it coming with a title like "Misdirected Blues"  |
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juspasinby2003
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Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:44 am Post subject: |
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Flavum,
Your first chord makes good enough sense. That's an AbMaj7(#11)/Eb which is an altered substitute for the IV chord.
The second chord is an A7(#5#9)/C# which is the same chord I heard the second time around, except for the addition of the #9. It also works well here and your recollection is probably correct. This chord is a curious hybrid of my two guesses. Here's the grip:
Interesting that all these chords work well and sound good here. Maybe I'll just play it safe and follow the bass to the III chord instead  |
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Flavum
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Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: |
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I may be off by one note on that first chord. I'm thinking that you play an A instead of Ab on the D string. Sounds better to my ear.
Damn this is frustrating! I was with a friend that may have recorded (legally) the clinic. I'll try to get in touch with him, but no guarantees.
One thing I picked up at the clinic is that Robben almost never plays a root in his chords. He said "That's what bass players are for".  |
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