Robben Ford Discussion

[kirk95]

Want to add some of that jazz bebop sound to your blues playing? Then you should check out the bebop scales. Dave Baker has a number of killer books on this topic.

G7 bebop scale:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7, 7
1, 9, 3, 11, 5, 13, b7, 7

The concept is this. You want to play chord tones (1,3,5,b7) on the down beats (1,2,3, and 4). The problem is the mixo scale is 7 notes. So if you play an 8th note descending run/line starting on any chord tone, every time you go from 1 to b7 it knocks the chord tones off the strong down beats. So the beboppers added an extra note - a chromatic pass tone between the (1 and b7) to make the mixo scale symmetric.

So in the blues you have 3 dominate 7th chords and you can play 3 mixo bebop scales over this progression - G7, C7, D7.

Some basic rules for creating bebop 8th note lines:

1> start on any chord tone and decend scaleswise in 8th notes

2> if you start on a non-chord tone (say 9 or 13) you can:

a> add a chromatic passing tone (9, b9, 1, 7, b7 ........)
b> play the non-chord tone as a quarter note............
c> play triplets ( 9, 1, 7) or (13, 5, 11) or (11, 3, 9) then continue in 8th notes

Now some fun stuff:

3> When your descending line hits the b7 play an ascending major 9th arpeggio (G, Gb, F, A, C, E, G,) then continue back down.

4> When your descending line hits b7, 5, or 3 play an ascending diminished 7th arpeggio (G, Gb, F, E, D, F, Ab, B, .....(resolve to the 4 chord on a C or Bb )

You can also play the ascending arpeggios as triplets. Note, the diminished arpeggio really sets up the change from the 1 chord to the 4 chord.

If you mess with this stuff you can create all kinds of very interesting bebopping lines. Now you mix this stuff in with your minor pentatonic stuff.

Check it guys!
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[juspasinby2003]

Hey, thanks Dave! Pretty Cool! That's going into my practice routine tonight.

But there sure are a lot of "rules" to follow. What does it sound like if you lose your sync for chord tones on the downbeats? MixoBopCountry?

[juspasinby2003]

David, That's a bebop dominant scale, right? Do the same basic rules apply for using the bebop major scale (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, #5, 6, 7)?

[kirk95]

[bluejack]

OK , so i see where it's been a year since this thead was posted.But as it goes i'm trying to look at these ideas once again as i make up some lines to practice over ii-v-I backing tracks.
Understand the concept behind it and all but in reading Mark Levine's take on it in chapter 7 of his book, he says the most commonly played beboop scales are dominant,major,dorian amd melodic minor.
So i got the major and dominant lines going but when i get to the dorian i'm stuck. Keeping it in the key of C, the dorian(ii) would be Dm7. So you're suppossd to insert a chromatic passing note betwen the 3rd and 4th notes. So descending, i come up with d c b a g f# f e d
My ? is, this doesn't seem to put the chord tones on the beat like the others. The root and third are,and it ends on the root but the fifth(a) and seventh(c) aren't.
What am i missing?
J

[Bluelobster]

well i am going to try this approach.

Have you tried : d c b a g# g f e d ? i've not yet . mix between blues scale & dorian.
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[bluejack]

That was my inclination at first also, put the passing note somewhere else. The one you propose doesn't really change things all that much.The fifth(a) and b7(c) are still on 'up' beats. Just to be sure we're on the same page here, i'm talking about a descending line in eighth notes. Seems if you put the note; between the root and b7, a natural 7th, it works like the dominant bebop scale.Just wonder why Levine calls for putting the chromatic passing note between the 3rd and 4th scale degree. I've not been able to see what David Baker says as i've only got Volume 3 of his 'How to Play Bebop'
Aso ,i'm going to play around with starting on different chord tones and like Kirk mentioned, making some notes quarter notes and using triplets to get you back on track.
J

[AndyR]

Bluejack wrote:

[bluejack]

Andy,
Yeah, that's always the best way to grasp something,find some real life music examples. I'm gonna compile a list of tunes that employ the bebob scale theory.You gave me a few to start with. Monk's 'Blue Monk comes to mind and there's a Dizzy tune called 'Bebop' that one of my teachers said was great to learn. I'll look into Ceora, have a couple of Lee Morgan but not Cornbread. Thanks for the pdf,it's the solo but the head is in the real book.
The reason i'm started this endeavor was to work with the yin/yang of having chord tones on the beats with some chromaticism around them. For me, i'd like to outline the changes a little better than i do now.
And man you hit on one of my fav Robben licks, that part right at about 4:18 into Nothing for Nobody... 25 seconds of pure musical genius!!!
J

[kirk95]

Wes Montgomery used the bebop scales in an incredible melodic way. Go transcribe some Wes lines if you want hear these applied.

Also, get the Dave Bakers books over here:
http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=DAVBAK
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