Robben Ford Discussion

[juspasinby2003]

Here's one I'd like to have a better grasp of. Some of us are more familiar than others with using the melodic minor scale in the blues. (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Can anyone lay out some rules of thumb for the best use of the melodic minor scale in basic blues progressions. For example, one common use is to play in the melodic minor scale 1/2 step above the root of the dominant chord (V7) over the dominant in the progression. Robben does this quite often, but I can't think of a good example at the moment. It doesn't really matter why this works, but it sounds good.

Can you think of any other melodic minor tips and tricks for use in blues progressions?

[Aeolian]

I was shown once that this works over a minor root as well. Instead of converting the minor 1 (like an Am blues) into the II or VI as in proper therory, just call it the one, sharp the 5 and play the melodic minor (ex. F melodic minor over Am in our Am blues. Not sure why this works either.

There are also two other melodic minor substitutions (other than the #5) but I can't remember them. Help me Captain, my dylithium crystals couldn't take any more.
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[Bill Morgan]

[juspasinby2003]

Aeolian,
Yep. That seems to work just fine. Thanks.
So, to summarize, in a minor key blues, you can play the melodic minor one half step above the root of the tonic chord over the tonic in the progression, i.e., (in an Am i, iv, V progression) you can play A# melodic minor over the Am chord.

These melodic minor tricks can add a new dimension to you solos. Once you know the basic melodic minor scale fretboard pattern, they are easy to weave into your pentatonic routines, and they sound very cool.

The pattern takes about 10 minutes to learn and not too much ear adaptation to hear well enough to know when to use it. Then, you can pretty easily weave it into your solos just by knowing a couple or few of these tricks (play the melodic minor a half step up from the minor 1 chord or one-half step up from the dominant V chord).

To use and benefit from it, it isn't necessary to know anything about the origin or history of the scale, how it is constructed, why it was "invented," how to harmonize it, etc. All you need to know is the visual pattern of it on your fretboard and then practice weaving it into your lines. Your ear will take over from there. Simple, eh?

[kirk95]

The Don Mock book is excellent!

Here's how to use the melodic minor scale:

MinMaj7 - Melodic minor
Maj7#5 - Melodic minor down a minor 3rd

These you can use these in the blues:
M7b5 - Melodic minor up a minor 3rd
Dom7 (b5 or#11) - Melodic minor up a 5th
Dom7 Alt (13) - Melodic minor down a whole step
Dom7 Alt -(#5 or b13) Melodic minor up 1/2 step

Notice that the last two are a minor 3rd a part. So you can play a lick using the first scale and then repeat the same lick up a minor 3rd.

Confused yet?
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[Bluelobster]

by now all i can remember from my beloved teacher is :

when u see a minor chord play dorian
when u see a chord (any kind) resolving toward a fifth (any kind) play
Altered (melodic starting half step up)
Not resolving play Lydian b7

More to come

[Bill Morgan]

[iamthewalrus]

I am really enjoying this thread but also agree with Bill's take. Here's a plug for an upcoming instructional book - Carl Verheyen's newest book just went to the publisher with the working title "Playing Without Scales." Without giving anything away let me simply say this: Bill Morgan will probably love it. So will anyone who has worked hard to learn scales and modes and has them in their hands and has worked them into their playing.

Cheers,
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[kirk95]

Hey guys theory is theory. It exists whether you like it or not. Just like grammar exists. We learn grammar to help us learn the rudiments of communication. Then we internalize it and it becomes second nature. So when we express our selves verbally we don't think about the grammar but we still use it. It's the same thing with scales. You don't just wake up one day and play like Robben. Believe me Robben spent a lot of time learning his scales.... So I don't get all the scale bashing. It's just a framework.

Knowledge is power...don't ever forget it.
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[kirk95]

One more thing.

This is the The Theory Corner: The place to discuss music theory, chord scales, chord substitutions, outside playing, practicing and technique.

So this thread is bulls eye on target.....
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[juspasinby2003]

[Leftbender]

Theory and practice are means to reach my goal. Learning scales and chords is not my goal. I want to learn to express myself on my instrument. This means my goal is endless. I think the trick is to limit yourself to the things you really master. In this way I can spent time to improve my tone and expression. I have learned this pays off when I play on stage. Running up and down the neck of your guitar, like many jazz players do, is boring to me. To put your soul into your music is far more difficult than learning scales. Don't get me wrong; I learn every day! But I will only use new stuff when I master it. The perfect example of a boring soulless player together with a very expressive one is the album Minor Elegance with J.D. and R.F.
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[Bill Morgan]

[juspasinby2003]

[Bluelobster]