Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 943 Location: Terra Firma, Ether Sea
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:25 pm Post subject: ( }:-D FAQ... Robben, please check out my stuff?
I originally posted this in the "DBoothMan/Robben Update" area, in response to a question asked in the "Pritchard Amps" thread... It is a valid question, asked me very often but, until now, having never been publicly addressed, I feel it deserves the focus of its own thread:
ekp wrote:
I would like to show Robben my amps during his east coast trip, in particular the Hagerstown gig on June 5. How can this be arranged? Thanks
Eric, this is a good example of a FAQ that I very often get, so I thought I would take this opportunity to address it publicly.
Robben, unlike the larger percentage of artists in this business, has successfully found his 'niche', his 'sound', his 'thing'... and he is very happily satisfied with it. He occasionally likes to tweak it a little, or try different configurations of it, or fine tune certain aspects of it, but at the core of it all... if he were forced to forever use nothing but a couple of his favorite guitars thru his Dumble setup, with his wah, volume pedal, and his TC... and maybe a touch of reverb... he would get along just fine.
The point here being that Robben is very satisfied with what he hears as his sound and with the core of the gear he uses to get it... so he is not really interested in looking for something else to replace what he already uses. As long as it works to his satisfaction, why divert time to replacing it with something else, when he could be putting that same time & energy to matters he feels are more important, productive and satisfying to his goals?
However, expanding on this some, Robben, as an artist, is, of course, interested in the ever increasing variety of tools and the pallets of everchanging sonic colours becoming available to him and his creative processes. So, to this extent, he DOES have a curiosity about gear he's never heard or processors he's never tried... but it is only a curiosity, not a motivating force.
To sum up... IF Robben doesn't feel like he's being pushed into a corner to try out something he really hadn't planned or desired to look at (In which case, he MAY give in & do it, but his headspace will be very negative), ...IF he doesn't have to go out of his way, ...IF he's in a naturally curious mood, ...and/or IF Robben happens to have the spare time, ...he will take a look at gear and give his thoughts (all the way from "Well, I certainly had no desire to hear something like that" thru "That's pretty interesting, but I don't know what I would ever use it for" or "That's a great sounding amp for a Rock guitarist", to the very rare, but occasional, "Wow, that's cool! I might have a use for that... hang onto it for me, will you, Dave?".
But, to randomly tell Robben, "we have some amps and/or guitars and/or processors and/or footpeddles sitting around that people would like you to test".... it PROBABLY will not happen. He rarely will go to stores, or factories, to try things out, unless it is for something he is specifically looking for and it's the one place he will most likely find it (His new L.P., is a case in point, in that he was looking SPECIFICALLY for a certain kind of Les Paul, so his trip to San Francisco was set up over a period of time, to happen at a certain time, at a certain place, with specific people, at Robben's schedule, because of Robben's desire to find a certain specific instrument).
Therefor, the ONLY time I ever see Robben testing other amps is if we're at a gig or studio and he happens to spot an amp sitting around backstage, or being used by one of the other performers, that peaks his curiosity and then he will usually play only a handfull of chords and a couple of quick licks, turn a few knobs, flick a couple switches while trying a couple more licks and then be done with it. Never more than 3-5 minutes. In that time, he'll now know all he wants to know.
He will then usually make a comment, briefly (rarely more than a sentence or two) critiquing both the good and the bad points. But, even if his comment is filled with praise, it will almost always end with a variation of: "...but it's not my Dumble. I love my Dumble. And I have 2 of them! So, at this point in my life, why would I want anything else?"
Actually, Robben is most inclined to check out stomp boxes more then anything else. But, again, he most often prefers to do so at his leisure. Stomp boxes are not something he needs, but they might be something he'll use.
At the moment, I have a cubic foot sized box overflowing with new pedals waiting for Robben to look at (For those of you involved with any of these pedals... all I can say, is all I've ever said: "Please be patient. Robben is as Robben does. We WILL get to them sometime, hopefully soon, and when we do I'll get in touch with each of you. 'Till then, thanx for your understanding"). These pedals have been accumulating for several months, still I hang on to them, drag them around with us when I can, and keep them at the ready. Robben & I do actually try to plan specific times to go thru them, but one thing or another always comes up. But, we WILL get to them eventually.
I think I would have to say, from my experience, that the best time to get gear looked at by Robben... is most often in the studio, where we're in a controlled environment (ie: sonicly, production, time scheduling, etc.) and Robben is most creatively open to new sounds & ideas.
And finally...
Quote:
How can this be arranged?
...good question, wish I had a good answer for you. It's kinda like trying to advertise a fantastic new freezing unit to an Eskimo. Unless he can be made to feel a need, then he really isn't interested in investing the time.
There is no real formula. About all I can say is, how creative can you be without seeming pushy, "high sales", or annoying?
Some people, DO get their stuff looked at... they are usually "in the right place, at the right time", sincere, respectful, and patient.
Good Luck! _________________ B C-ing U!
( }:-Daved
"This boy's diseased with rhythm!" -Bing Crosby (Road To Rio, '49)
Hey Daved,
I have developed a line of footwear (shoes) that I believe would be perfectly suited for Robben and that Robben would like very much. I have observed, as have many others on this board, that Robben varies his footwear quite often and is therefore probably not completely happy with any of his current choices. Is there a convenient time and place where I could respectfully attach my footwear to Robben's feet so he could give me a brief, sagacious comment expressing his perceptions about my product?
I have also been involved recently in research and development of a new shirt closure device (in the nature of but not the same as a zipper) to facilitate quick and convenient closure of one's shirt front, which R & D I have undertaken specifically with Robben in mind. Would Robben be agreeable to my taking the shirt off his back to replace it with a prototype from my anticipated line?
What a fascinating and useful developments for performing artist, I'm sure Robben will be trilled to try them (Daved what do you think?), specially if you can make the footwear "WAH-WAH pressure sensitive" and somehow connect it to new shirt closure device !!!
Open pedal WAAAAA! - shirt opens , close pedal AWWWWW ! shirt zips up . I'm sure crowd will appreciate this effect more then any cool sound from the new stomp box or amp.
By the way can you attach the closure device to the trousers ?
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: box
scottl wrote:
When was HAD ever the victim of "virtual theft"??
I'm a little bored at work right now, so this gives me a chance to spout off. I agree that HAD wasn't the victim of "virtual theft", just plain old theft is more like it. Whenever someone copies another person's designs, whether patented or not, and reproduces them for profit, that is stealing in my book. And there is nothing "virtual" about it. Is it unfortunate that there are people who would copy the Dumble amp part-for-part and profit from the results, but in a demand-driven market, if the demand isn't filled by the original supplier, there will always be someone else ready to fill the gap. Such is life.
While I'm up on my soapbox, I would like to comment on something else. We often hear people comparing amps like the Fuchs and Two-Rock amps to the Dumbles, but in some ways, that's really not fair as it implies that those amps are in some way simple clones of the Dumbles. While it may be true that those amps were originally inspired by the Dumble amps, I know for a fact that both Andy Fuchs and Bill and Joe at K&M have worked long and hard to come up with their own designs, improvements, additions, whatever, and they deserve to be recognized in their own right, not just as "amps that sound like Dumbles".
And while I'm pontificating, I'd have one more nit to pick. While I have no problem with people copying other amps for their own building/playing pleasure, I think it is unfair and inconsiderate to disclose information on amp designs that have been copied from somewhere, on a public forum like this one. I'm pretty sure that if I had access to Andy Fuchs' circuit details, and I came on here and started explaining his circuitry, or worse, posting schematics, Andy would be pretty put out with me. And that's as it should be. So why is that people are more than happy to discuss the cirtuit details of the Dumble amps here, or to post schematics for the world to see? Why is that different from me giving away Andy's family jewels? It isn't. And out of simple respect, if nothing else, it shouldn't be done. Such things should be discussed privately, if at all, and not here on a public forum.
All of the above is just my humble opinion, and is not intended to incite any flames. And in fact, I will not respond to any inflammatory posts. I just ask for a little consideration of other people. Think what you would feel like if someone took information that you considered private and posted it here or on some other forum. I don't imagine you'd be too pleased. It's the old Golden Rule. It's still valid.
Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:12 am Post subject:
Well said Bill.........
Bill, Andy sent me a new ODS100 last week. The components used are the result of my 2 month long R&D solderathon! We also tried different trannies. I'll make some clips, but let me tell you, this amp is unlike any that have come out of Andy's shop so far. Huge air and girth around the notes. Plenty of Zhoosh. No rasp or harshness. Amazing amp...
And yes, it has a full regulated power supply. For the people who say Andy cloned Dumbles, I assure them that there are many many things in this amp that neither Dumble nor the other companies have done. Not saying better or worse, just different.
Bill, Andy sent me a new ODS100 last week. The components used are the result of my 2 month long R&D solderathon! We also tried different trannies. I'll make some clips, but let me tell you, this amp is unlike any that have come out of Andy's shop so far. Huge air and girth around the notes. Plenty of Zhoosh. No rasp or harshness. Amazing amp...
And yes, it has a full regulated power supply. For the people who say Andy cloned Dumbles, I assure them that there are many many things in this amp that neither Dumble nor the other companies have done. Not saying better or worse, just different.
Scott
Hi Scott,
Thanks for the info on the new Fuchs. I'll look forward to hearing it. I really liked that last clip you sent me, although I think I may have forgotten to respond to your message. Sorry about that.
Regarding the regulated power supply, I was curious as to whether Andy has used a tube rectifier in any of his amps, or if you have experimented with tube rectified amps yourself. I built myself a little tube recitified amp with a Deluxe Reverb output stage and I'm just loving the sound and feel of that amp.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:42 am Post subject:
Bill,
I agree completely. Intelectual property rights are difficult to enforce in a cottage industry. Especially one as evolutionary, and built on a common foundation, as guitar amps. Even building a private copy infringes on HAD's design ownership. The slight rationalization being that neither of us could buy one from him if we wanted to (maybe if Robben took one of us out on the road for a couple of years as a second guitarist, yeah, dream on) so he's not suffering any damages from your private copies. In some fashion, this rationalization could be applied to taking the basic architecture of Dumble's amps and tweaking them from there. Is imitation the sincerest form of flattery? After all, a couple of cats in Fullerton took some application schematics out of the RCA Radiotron handbook and built what became our standard. A cat in England took that and went in a different direction. Then a cat in Petaluma took the idea of people chaining amps into each other and built that into one amp. Then a guy in Santa Cruz started voicing his amp after a guitar player he admired, and here we are. We are not talking about completely new circuit topographies here. Just as with musical ideas, it's probably all been done before. An Alembic bass preamp, is basically a Fender front end in a 1U chassis. A Dumble output stage is basically a four 6L6 Fender. Every tone stack value in a Dumble/Fuchs/TR/Lerner has probably already been used in one amp or another over the past 60 years. So whose intelectual property is it? To quote Laurendo Almedia introducing a song on a live LA4 record, "If you cut from one, that's plagerism. If you cut from more than one, it's research". _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 56 Location: Mesa , Arizona (Its a Dry Heat!)
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:
Bill Morgan wrote:
I built myself a little tube recitified amp with a Deluxe Reverb output stage and I'm just loving the sound and feel of that amp.
Bill
Hi Bill, the first amp that I built for myself used a 5AR4 for the rectifier. Definately gives the amp a "sponge" factor. Not sure what rectifier you are using, but a 5U4GB will increase the "sponginess" of the amp. Change the fixed bias to cathode bias and you have may have the ultimate in overall feel in the amp (at least for blues).
At 100 watts you would need to run two 5AR4s in parallel to handle the current. Look at the schematics for old Fender Tweed amps. Mesa was NOT the first to use multiple rectifier tubes.
Gary _________________ -------------------------------------------------------
Playing Bass, one thump at a time.
www.glaswerks.com www.tsjband.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Hi Bill, the first amp that I built for myself used a 5AR4 for the rectifier. Definately gives the amp a "sponge" factor. Not sure what rectifier you are using, but a 5U4GB will increase the "sponginess" of the amp. Change the fixed bias to cathode bias and you have may have the ultimate in overall feel in the amp (at least for blues).
Gary
I used a 5AR4 in that amp. I have another amp that I converted from 6L6 to 6V6, and I made that one cathode bias with a pentode/triode switch. That's a fun amp too. It's still using a solid state rectifier, but I may replace that with a Weber Copper Cap.
Great thread with lots of informative (and polite!) opinions offered.
Scott - I think I'll be sending my ODS-100 to Andy for the modifications you've talked about. If I can set my amp like that picture you posted of yours without blowing people's heads off, it'll be worth the time and cost.
Daved - I'm still gushing, over a year later, that Robben actually asked me if he could play my Historic Les Paul at his clinic. He mentioned that was intrigued by them and had been meaning to check them out. Lo and behold, he bought one. Timing is everything.
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, close pedal AWWWWW ! shirt zips up 
. I'm sure crowd will appreciate this effect more then any cool sound from the new stomp box or amp.
