Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 26 Location: NEW YORK,NEW YORK
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject:
Daved ..No Please,Please,Me...ME I will take the BIG box of effects...I have a Hugh boat "SEAFOOD" and can use more weight for an ancor!
We all love Robben effects....so "why not copy" the works been done,read between the lines.....PRACTICE....ITS IN THE FINGERS!
Hey Bill,
Would you mind if I posted the schematic for my prototype shirt closure device? I want to sucker a clone maker into having as much misfortune with it as I have had.
Great thread with lots of informative (and polite!) opinions offered.
Scott - I think I'll be sending my ODS-100 to Andy for the modifications you've talked about. If I can set my amp like that picture you posted of yours without blowing people's heads off, it'll be worth the time and cost.
Daved - I'm still gushing, over a year later, that Robben actually asked me if he could play my Historic Les Paul at his clinic. He mentioned that was intrigued by them and had been meaning to check them out. Lo and behold, he bought one. Timing is everything.
Hey Flavum, I remember that incident with Robben wanting to play your LP. I was there. I thought it odd at the time (it was just before the clinic began, right?) and never heard the story behind it until now. He seemed to enjoy playing with it as I recall.
Hey Flavum, I remember that incident with Robben wanting to play your LP. I was there. I thought it odd at the time (it was just before the clinic began, right?) and never heard the story behind it until now. He seemed to enjoy playing with it as I recall.
I think it was after the lunch break that we swapped guitars for a couple minutes. I was humbled that he remembered my name, probably because I was the maniac that came all the way from CT for the clinic. Tom
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:41 am Post subject:
Gary,
I very seriously doubt that it was Daved's intention to offend anyone. Selling iceboxes to Eskimos is such common parlance that it's probably on the slate for the next edition of Webster's. I don't see how in any way it impugnes on Inuit people who live in conventional homes and use mechanical refrigeration. It is merely a common way of relating the futility of offering something to some one who has no use for it.
This seems far too politically correct for me. I grew up in Hawaii and in the words of Hawaiian comic Frank DiLima, "we poke fun at everybody". In that way the tension is reduced and people do not get carried away. That is not to say that racism is non-existant. On the contrary, I had the experience of being in the "wrong" group and knowing what it was like to grow up with funny looks and glass ceilings. One of the pictures I submitted to the Scott Henderson contest was of a band I played with there. I was the only one of my ethnic background in the group and this ultimately became an issue. One fine day I was told it would be my last week, and I was replaced by someone more ethnically suitable for the band's clientele. Until I moved to the mainland, we were still friends and I bore no grudges, the band did what it had to do for it's survival. Just the same as if you had a rock band with one of the members who only played Eric Dolphy like jazz. It doesn't fit, so you have to change. This is reality and I learned to accept it a long time ago. Maybe it is this background that thickened my skin and makes statements such as yours seem overly sensitive to me. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
I very seriously doubt that it was Daved's intention to offend anyone......
This seems far too politically correct for me. I grew up in Hawaii and in the words of Hawaiian comic Frank DiLima, "we poke fun at everybody". In that way the tension is reduced and people do not get carried away. That is not to say that racism is non-existant. On the contrary, I had the experience of being in the "wrong" group and knowing what it was like to grow up with funny looks and glass ceilings. One of the pictures I submitted to the Scott Henderson contest was of a band I played with there. I was the only one of my ethnic background in the group and this ultimately became an issue. One fine day I was told it would be my last week, and I was replaced by someone more ethnically suitable .....
And Aeolian do you know what Does SOUND Hysteric (regarding my european way of thinking) is that all of you were wearing this incredible Red(neckish) suit making one unable to say who is a native or not.
It made me LOL . I mean if these guys had to wear a typical Hawaian suit it would have been obvious that you didn't fit in the mold . But considering the way the boss asked you to dress , i find your story way funny .
In France we have this expression :
It's the hospital making fun out of the charity.
Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 943 Location: Terra Firma, Ether Sea
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject:
Oops! Sorry if I offended you, Gary... honestly, not my intention.
I lived in Northern Washington and British Columbia for several years where, for the native peoples in those areas, the association of cold winters, ice, and snow was never seen as any sort of a racial problem, slight, or embaressment... so I never associated that it might be for Eskimos. If that was a political correctness blunder, than again... sincerely... sorry.
It is so hard to keep track of who gets offended by what these days... but I really do try. And, if I miss something, well, I am learning, just like everyone else.
I appreciate Aeloian's thoughts as they very well sum up my own when I used that analogy.
Aeolian wrote:
Selling iceboxes to Eskimos is such common parlance that it's probably on the slate for the next edition of Webster's.... It is merely a common way of relating the futility of offering something to some one who has no use for it.
Maybe it would have been better to have said "Alaskan" or "polar person" rather than "Eskimo". I am truely sorry. If it helps, let me change the line to "...like trying to sell hair spray to a bald man." _________________ B C-ing U!
( }:-Daved
"This boy's diseased with rhythm!" -Bing Crosby (Road To Rio, '49)
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Southern California
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:56 am Post subject:
Daved wrote:
If that was a political correctness blunder, than again... sincerely... sorry.
It is so hard to keep track of who gets offended by what these days... but I really do try. And, if I miss something, well, I am learning, just like everyone else.
I think what's really sad is that anybody would feel the need to apologize when they didn't do anything wrong. David's comment was harmless and I've never ever heard anybody suggest that the phrase is insensitive or offensive.
Like Daved said, its so hard to keep track of who gets offended by what that its getting to be ridiculous. If this keeps up no one will be able to say anything to anybody eventually. I'm so sick of this political correctness crap.
Sorry for the rant but to take offense to Daved's eskimo phrase really is hard to believe.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:28 am Post subject:
Oddly, I think it's the term Eskimo that is more offensive. This is a western made up term, I don't know the origins of it, but it's my understanding that it doesn't exist in the Inuit language. Just as a distant grandfather of mine has been dubbed Geronimo when his real name was Goyathlay. But I don't think folks should trip all over themselves trying to be perfectly politically correct.
A quote I read once from Louis Rukeyser went: "Never presume malice, where incompetence will suffice". The word incompetent might sound harsh, but I take this as not to presume malicious intent where the person might just not know better. This really comes into play with those folks here for whom English is not their native language. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 943 Location: Terra Firma, Ether Sea
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject:
Actually Gary, if it really is a seriously iritating issue to the Eskimo, I'd be interested in being made more aware by hearing any information you may like to pass along. I must confess I've never been highly schooled in the manners, customs, lifestyles and history of the Eskimo. I am very much a product of what I've been "fed" as far as my knowledge of the natives of the far north (and far south?) goes. If there is something I should know or be made aware of, please do so. Perhaps it would help guide me from stepping on more toes in the future. _________________ B C-ing U!
( }:-Daved
"This boy's diseased with rhythm!" -Bing Crosby (Road To Rio, '49)
Joined: 19 Sep 2003 Posts: 646 Location: City of Trees, USA
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:27 pm Post subject:
Gary, Daved and all:
Wow, this stuff is complicated. According to one source I found, "Eskimo" is used to refer to one of a number of separate groups of indigenous people. As I understanding it, the "Eskimo & Aleut" group includes the Aleut, Alutiiq, Cup'ik, Inuit, Inupiaq and Yup'ik, and the "Alaskan Indian" group includes the
Athapaskan, Eyak, Haida, Tlingit and Tsimshian. I'd previously heard about the Inuit and the Haida in works about indigenous kayak design, but don't know if I'd ever heard anything about the others. Whether or not anyone from any of those groups would be offended by the phrase "trying to sell iceboxes to Eskimos," any more than a Newcastleman would be offended about the expression "coals to Newcastle," I have no idea, but it would be nice if we could find out before any of us unintentionally insults anyone. In the meantime, I vote for the aforementioned "like trying to sell tone to Robben" expresssion as topping them all. _________________ - BlueRunner
You certainly do not owe me an apology. I went back and forth on even mentioning what I knew many would consider a very minor point. In fact, after having written my post and hit the "submit" button, it appeared that it locked up on my screen and did not go through to the forum, so I thought "just as well", because of the potential to stir up things.
I do film work here in Alaska, and having been the only non-native person in an Inupiaq whaling village ( Pt. Hope) working on a documentary with a good friend who is Yup'ik Eskimo, I had some very revealing times. As part of a dominant white culture there are things that I am blind to, sheerly by lack of direct experience. There are stereotypes that do make for bad feelings, and although Aeolian seems to have found his means of acceptance ( developing a thick skin), I have seen indigenious people up here react to things which I have to admit took me by surprise, including the analogy you shared. It made me think quite a bit. What's the harm in such a comparison? It seems to make sense, right? I can't give you a meaningful answer, only to share that I have seen someone react, and so I had to evaluate the power of words. That is why I passed on what I did.
It's not my position that we all need to walk around on eggshells around people of color. Your comment had no overtones whatsoever that indicated intended disrespect. It just made me re-live my experience and so I wound up expressing that in a clumsy way.
I'm sorry to have diverted the original thread, and wish all the best.
By the way, if Robben would ever grace us with performing in Alaska, I can set you guys up with the full bore experience with Alaska Native cultures. _________________ garylamarLOUDguitar
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Tom
Gary, Daved and all:
