Robben Ford Discussion

[Aeolian]

Maybe precipitated by the dissapointment of events last night piling on top of each other after I went to go and sit in at an invitational blues night to vent my personal blues. But, I hate the blues Nazis. The guys in their bowling shirts who feel that anything beyond three chords and five notes, isn’t blues. Narrow minded people who contend that no “real” blues has been recorded since 1959. Who consider a blackface Fender a “modern” amp. People who wouldn’t be caught dead with any pedal unless it was a Fender reverb tank or perhaps a tremolo pedal for their tweed Bassman’s. Who consider any sort of sustain, beyond what an old hollowbody Kay into a Tweed Deluxe got, to be bad tone.

I love the blues. I grew up playing blues and blues derived music. Whatever directions I ventured in, it always came back to the blues. But maybe because I loved all of it, I never thought of “the blues” as a museum piece. But as a living, breathing form of expression. And that it was a format to bring all that I’ve learned about music and playing guitar as a means of expressing myself the best I possibly could. But the narrow minded blues Nazis don’t like that. They don’t want anyone diluting their opinion of “true blues”. And they seem to be taking over. The general populaces rediscovery of the blues has been focused on the traditional performers. And anyone with anything new or different to say is shunted aside as wrong, or not playing blues. You must be some kind of “rock” guy if you play with more distortion than a tweed Bassman on 4. You must be some kind of “jazz” guy if you play any extended harmonies or chords. Whatever it is, “we don’t like your kind” and “it isn’t blues”. And I’m not talking about ZZ Top or rockers wailing over Red House. I’m talking about Gatemouth Brown, Robben Ford, Duke Robilard, Joe Louis Walker, Mike Bloomfield, and countless others who added spice and flavor to the blues.

This vitriol was brought about by the take over of the local blues scene by these guys and the way they treat players with broader tastes. Several times I’ve been invited to a premier blues club in Santa Cruz to sit in with at a “locals blues night”. Not a jam night, but something that is supposed to showcase professional level local blues folks, and give the audience a good time (without having to sit though the beginners who come to some open jam nights). The first night, I put my Fuchs on stage so that I and another fellow there could play though something that had some gain. Boy, did I get dirty looks. The next time, I just brought a Banzai Fireball to plug into the front of the leaders Vibroluxe. The other guitar player walked over to me in the middle of the song to say that I didn’t need that and the amp was already set and miked with enough volume, even though I had the level of the overdrive below what was coming out with the pedal off. The next two times I showed up it was, “Hi, Ready to play some guitar? Cool” but I must have instantly become invisible as I was completely ignored once the music started. I wonder what they would have done if Robben Ford came in. “Oh, you aren’t a ‘real’ blues player, we won’t let you play with us”?

A pox on the blues Nazis. I didn’t spend 43 years working on this instrument to have some narrow-minded wannabe judge me. I guess it’s either time to learn more standards and go to the coffee shops, of put the thing back under the bed until there is some respect and open mindedness out there.
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[kirk95]

I am with ya brother. We have the same thing in Colorado at some of the blues jams. I always show up with my own amp or at least a pedal or two and get the dirty looks.... I just smile and then I do my thing and then leave.... I always go out of my way to not play straight 12 bar blues. I'll play 13 bar blues and minor blues with extended dominants and I always play extended harmonies and subs over those changes. No big deal! It's actually kind of fun to see their faces......


Just go for it........:dude

answered on the gear page too...........
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[JohnnyZ]

Hey Aeolian, I understand your feeling at the moment, but don't ever let anyone change or discourage you. Like kirk says, just do your thing. If it still doesn't work out, move on, but don't ever bury your guitar under the bed!

I don't understand why the movement to the old, raw blues. Personally, I find that hard to listen to for any length of time, and would much prefer the more "modern" sound. But that's just me...

~JZ~
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[nineacres]

The comments on the Blues Nazis made me think of something I had read some time ago regarding a certain delta blues singer's repertoire.

The comment reads: "In addition to the blues for which he was known, he developed a very well-rounded repertoire that included all the pop tunes of the day and yesterday, hillbilly tunes, polkas, square dances, sentimental songs, and ballads. Among the more common pieces he played were, "Yes, Sir, That's My Baby," "My Blue Heaven," and "Tumbling Tumbleweeds"!""

The blues singer in question was Robert Johnson. Nuff said.

(See: http://www.deltahaze.com/johnson/bio.html)
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[AndyR]

Sometimes I think "Blues Jam" is a euphemism for "Jam for Guys who can't play anything but a I-IV-V progression and pentatonic licks ad nauseum"

But that won't fit on the marquee.

As a player I find it pretty boring.

I've been doing some open mics the last few years, playing with a bassist and a guitarist, with me on keys and singing. We usually pick up a drummer, another guitar, or sax, harp, etc, at the jam.

I'm jazz-inclined, so we've worked out a song list that is blues-based jazz oriented. Songs like:

Eight Counts for Rita
Back at the Chicken Shack
All Blues
Freddy Freeloader
Mr P.C.
Killer Joe
Strut
Moondance
Watermelon Man
Never Make Your Move Too Soon
Temptation, etc...etc...

This gives the pentatonic guys a chance to solo on jazz tunes over pretty basic changes...I just tell 'em to lay out of the head or other sections they don't know.

I usually limit the solos to 2 choruses per person, reprise the head...then STOP!!! Very rarely do we play a song longer than 5 minutes.

If jazz guys show up, we'll do tunes like Blue Bossa, Girl From Impanema, All of Me or rhythm changes tune, and so on.

We usually get a pretty good audience response, I think because we're different than the average jam.

Do you guys ever go to any "Funk Brothers 1-Chord Jam For 20 Minutes" open mics?

Andy

[frank0936]

I am in complete agreement with you guys. It is possible to make a I-IV-V sound new and interesting for more than one chorus. I heard people do it. Unfortunately, most of the time, those people don't come to jams! The first time I heard Robben, it was the spice he added to the blues that instantly won me over. Ever since then, I have been trying to find those neat sounding chord voicings to put into my own playing. If I do play at a jam, I'll play what I play, and just be myself. If they don't like it, I don't have to play there. I usually get paid to play-most of them don't. We put up with them, they can put up with us. I don't like to listen to all trad blues, but I do like listening to some of it. It's the roots of what we do. I don't look down on those who want to play it, and I demand the same respect of them toward us. Play what you love, what ever that is. That's why jams are a good thing-they broaden us. There's my rant for the day.
Frank

[kirk95]

Want to really have some fun with the blues Nazis?

Call a blues in Db? hehehehe
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[Cal]

AndyR - nice set list. When you say Strut, do you mean Soulful Strut by Young Holt Unlimited? Could you tell me which version of Temptation you go from?

Cal

[AndyR]

Cal asked:

[AndyR]

...I forgot.

"Temptation" is the Diana Kraal cover of the Tom Waites tune...

I even manage to sing it in the same key as Ms Krall!!!

[Bluelobster]

[JohnnyZ]

Hey Blobby- you know how I've been saying that I wanna party with you? I think you're ready right now! And, I think Aeolian could use a good partyin' now too. Heck, let's just get the whole damn forum with all of our fancy guitars, RCA-rip-off amps and effects pedals, yellowjacket bee costumes, and whatever else that makes us happy to play the blues any which way we want, and party on! Let's just do it!

~JZ~
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[Bluelobster]

[juspasinby2003]

[juspasinby2003]

Seriously, though, you might try donning the bowling shirt sometime. I assume the blues Nazis (I prefer Blues Taliban) in your neighborhood are looking for more melodic players who actually play the major 3rd and who play with the changes. As you probably know, it can be challenging to play in this style and make it sound fresh and lively. Find one or two licks that they don't know that will turn their heads and they will change their attitudes but quick. Throw in some flat 5s and do your bends from a half step up from where you ordinarily would to maximize the dissonance before you slip back into the mixolydian mode melodies. Listen to Rick Holmstrom for some ideas. That cat makes it sound very nice indeed.