Robben Ford Discussion

wbfree · Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:01 am Post subject: speakers

First, I want to say how much I enjoyed seeing and hearing Robben play in Bend, Oregon last Thursday. I was a fan before now that I have heard him play live I am convinced he is right there with the best. I don't think one great guitarist is better than another, he is just in the rarefied zone of the best there is and it was truly a Pleasure to hear him play.
I am a fledgling guitar player at 62 years and wish I had started sooner but later is better than never. I am getting a Dr. Z Mazerati 38 watt head and am trying to figure out speakers for a cab. I know I won't know a whole lot until I get the Z head but I know enough with my 63 silvertone modded to know I don't want the bottom end to crap out and still get a sweet treble. I wondered what those c12t-75's would sound like. I made the mistake of spending and wasting money on a brand name 4x10 cab and speakers and learned an expensive lesson. I just bought a Red Fang-Eminence and I like it but it might be too warm I also have a california from Weber which I like but I am not sold yet. I won't exactly know what it is I want for tone until I hear it-so to me speakers are a crap shoot and I wanted to hear what you guys have had in the way of experience with speaker configurations. Thanks for the Great site I am now more than I was a real fan of Robbens music as he got to my soul with his playing the other night.
Peace
Burnie

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wbfree · Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: another thought

Okay the c12t-75's are out after listening to the samples at celestion. I would still like to know how say a weber 1265 in a 2x12 would sound with a 38 watt amp. The manufacturer recommends a V30 and a g12h and I have listened to them and did not like them much.
Thanks
Burnie Confused

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johan · Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:55 am Post subject:

A combination of Celestions Vintage 30 and G12H30 would be great for your Mazerati. Or pair it up with two Celestion Blues for some Voxier tones. Webers versions of the speakers above are just as nice in my opinion. Even the cheaper ceramic ones. Not worth the $$$'s for the alnicos.

I don't know if a Mazerati is the best amp to get the Dumbly tone of Robben. The Mazerati is more like a Vox AC30. Still a GREAT amp!! If you like country, check out Brad Paisley...he uses a Mazerati thru 2 Alnico Blues speakers.

johan · Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:57 am Post subject: Re: another thought

wbfree · Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:15 am Post subject: what if

Thanks Johan-What I worry about with the v30 and the g12h is the bottom craping out. I am not a very good player yet but I know what I don't like and speaker configurations are a bit of a mystery. I am not exactly trying for Dumble tone-would be nice though-I just wanted to experiment with a tighter speaker than the v30 and g12h. I have a eminence red fang and a weber blue dog, which is close? to the direction you suggest. I just wonder what the weber equivalent speaker to the celestion 12-65 would sound like with the maz. I am going to build my own cabs which hopefully will be better than what I can buy. I love all this stuff from the playing to figuring out what makes things sound good.
Thanks Johan
Burnie

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johan · Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:

Haven't tried the Red Fang. Brand new speaker from Eminence, right? The Celestion G12-65 (or the copy by Weber; "1265") is quite close to the V30 I think. Maybe a bit rolled off high on high volume thanx to the dust cover used.

I don't think you would have any problem with the lows crapping out. Shoot Mike Zaite (Dr Z himself) an email with your questions. Or go to GearPage.com and they will help you out.

It depends on the cabinet used too of course. Z builds a ported 212 that everyone raves about. I use a "proffessional home made THD 212 cab" and love it.

wbfree · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject:

Johan- Thanks for the input. I think I will try a 1265 first and see what happens. My cabs will all be 1x12's wired parallel with two jacks so I can run two cabs or one and experiment with speaker combinations.
Burnie

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scottl · Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:13 am Post subject:

For a Robbenish tone, the V30's were the WORST speakers I ever tried. Johan, my Weber 1265's are nothing at all like V30's. Not even a little. V30's are the worst crap I ever heard with my rig. I have 2 well broken in samples and they suck. The Weber's have none of the harshness at all, and have a singing sweet top end that is completely different than V30's.

Check out these clips for speaker samples.

EVM12L, Fuchs100, cone edge Sennheiser e609 mic
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/new/EVMdance1.mp3

Eminence Cannabis Rex, Fuchs ODS20, cone edge Sennheiser e609
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/new/lazyday20Rex.mp3
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/new/lazyday20Rex2.mp3

Weber alnico 1265, Fuchs 100, e609 & SM57
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/cd/FuchenJosie.mp3 (pre-latest revisions)
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/new/lazyday1.mp3
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/new/lazyday2.mp3

Hope these help.

Scott
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Bill Morgan · Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:08 pm Post subject: Speaking of speakers...

Has anyone tried the Celestion G12H-100? Rumor has it that Dr. Dumble is recommending these now. Maybe Daved has some info on that. Daved?

Bill

Aeolian · Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject:

A 100W version of the G12H? If it sounded the same that would be awesome. Wonder what they did to increase the power capability? There's a pretty good magnet structure on the 30W as is. Also, I could get cone cry out of one G12H with my 100W ODS in an open back cab so they would have to stiffen this up which would affect the sound.
At a recent "tone fest" the local Two Rock guy and I were comparing the timbre of lead tones on our respective rigs. He had a Jade with a standard TR 2-12 loaded with G12H Anniversary's. I had my ODS with the tweed cab posted about earlier loaded with C65's. Although the Jade has a somewhat different leading edge, we were able to get timbrally very close in the sound of these two cabs. Broken down, I think the G12H has a bit more richness or complexity in the upper bass/lower mids and the C65 has it's magic a bit higher up. In the wrong circumstances the C65 can be a bit nasal and the G12H less lively.
If you are concerned with the bottom end staying together, two G12H's ought to handle the 38 watts no problem and have a full rich low end. If you want a 1-12, that might be at the upper limit of this speaker. Note also that most of the C65's come out of Marshall cabs and are 15 ohms, not 8. Ocassionaly you can find an 8 ohm one, but they're really rare.
If you want a bit more sparkle, the Eminence Tonker has a solid bottom end, handles more power (rated 150W but I think this is optimistic) and has a nicely extended top end. A bit more punch and bite without being strident like the rock speakers (C75, C80)
Two Rock working together with Eminence just came out with their take on the C65 since they had lots of customers wanting to duplicate Robben's set up and were chasing around after used C65s. Early reports have this as a winner.
Scott, still curious as to how the Weber behaves when pushed into the point where AlNiCo's saturate and start compressing. Have you had a chance to use these on a loud gig and see how they behave?
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Lou V · Newbie Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1

renico00 · Member Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 32

Two Rock has just released their own speaker. It is a clone of the Celestion 65 and made by Eminence. An interesting side note, they were able to make it a 100w speaker. They will be $119.

Personally, I've always had a great affinity for the EV 12L. Another option is the Fuchs FAT-1.

Jeff

Phil T · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:38 am Post subject:

Just wanted to say I appreciate the comments from everyone on this subject. (good reading)

I have been exploring speakers recently and just received a pair of Vintage 30s the other day.
I have to say I agree with Scott L.'s comments, thanks Scott.

Other speakers I have tried include G12 Classic Lead 80, G12T-75, & old EVM 12Ls.
As for the Two Rock Eminence made 1265 type speaker, I'd be interested in comments from those who have heard them.

On a side note, I picked up 2 Marshall cabs some years ago. These are 2X12 cabs and contain G12T-75s. I found that the 2 cabs were from slightly different eras. One had the G12T-75s we currently see (black & white label on the back).
The other cab has the older looking G12T-75s. The labels on the back of these are different. Mostly black with a white rectangle in the center and "Professional Power Loudspeaker" is printed below. The number 1777 on the cone.
I have compaired the two (same cab) and they seem to sound very different. The older speakers seem to have a bit more mid range. Could they be a transitional speaker between the G12-65 and current model G12T-75?
Don't know.

So ... still looking, thinking of ordering some Weber 1265s.
PT

midc74 · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:36 am Post subject:

I have a Rivera 2x12 Knucklehead cab that I loaded with one Classic Lead 80, and one Vintage30. Wired in parallel for 4ohm. I think I get a pretty good sound out of it. Although, I havn't tried that many speakers. After reading scott and phil's comments about the V30, I'm wondering how much better my sound could be...

Any of you guys run two different speakers in one cab like I'm doing? Or is it preferred to run two of the same? I'm really curious about these Webers now.

(I need to get a sound card in this computer so I can listen to everyones samples! *hmph*)

Patrick

tonemaster2_11 · Member Joined: 07 Dec 2003 Posts: 37

If you want to hear some samples of a Celestion G12-80 Classic Lead you can do so here...

http://www.diyguitaramp.com/sounds.html

I agree with Scott ( nice to hear isn't it? ) the Vintage 30's are the worst speaker for getting tones that most of us here on the RF board would approve of. Lotsa bass, yucky high end... just not working. I'm going to take a shot at the ceramic Webers as soon as I get the change$$ Until then the G12-80's are decent enough.
For a completely different angle I really like the Jensen C12-K's that they're putting in the '65 Twin RI's these days. All depends on what you're looking to hear. They are WAY efficient. Louder than JBL or EV. Great for making a DeLuxe Reverb more gigworthy.

BTW - Z originally (circa 1994) put Greenbacks in those amps. Might be worth a try.