Robben Ford Discussion

spatzi · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 65

I've been watching old videos of Ford from 1992, listening to old live recordings. and comparing to his more recent live stuff. I can definitely say, he is playing less. He used to solo a lot more, solo a lot faster, but seems to be more laid back these days as far as his soloing aggression and amount of notes. This has nothing to do with tone. The tone is always great. I just wonder why that is. Maybe he's becoming more of blues purist? Getting tired of playing? Thinks he was overplaying? I don't know. Anyone else notice this? There is a definite stylistic change from 1991-1995 comparied to Ford of today. If I had to pinpoint an exact time when I think his aggression went out the window, it was after 'Handful of blues'. From that point on, I've heard less and less killer solos, more 'for the song' playing, more 'laid back' playing.

Take for example the solo on 'Rugged road'. That is a killer solo and up there in his top 5. It's been ages since I've heard him lay down a solo like that on a record. He's obviously capable, but doesn't seem too interested in that kind of thing anymore. Also take into account I've seen him in concert about 20 times since 1989, and while the recent Paris concert, was great, it's nowhere near the energy level of shows I saw 15 years ago with the original blue line. Oh well, even the great guitarists have to get older and mellow out, I guess.

Red Suede · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject:

What's your idea of a "killer" solo? Not a whole lot of notes going on on "The Inside Story" but a lot of guy's love that album and he was in his twenties then, so age has nothing to do with it. Robben has the gears, but he uses them when his taste dictates it, not just to wank.

spatzi · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 65

I just said my idea of a killer solo was 'Rugged road'. Watch the 'ohne filter' concert from 1991. And then tell me that's 'wanking'. Robin never 'wanks'. He just plays longer solos, more intensively, heavier, than he does now. His speed runs verge on 'metal' at times. I'm comparing 'live' situations - then and now. Even on Jing chi, which is an instrumental project, and he has full opportunity, he doesn't play as intensively as he used to. This is not a question of 'his last album was mellow and the next one was wanking'. There is steady decline in his aggressiveness and love of soloing since the early 90's. This is quite apparent even in the studio albums since 'Handful'. What this boils down to, is that I think that as strictly as a guitar player, (and everyone has his time) he peaked back in the 90's. He's still great, but when I think of the jaw dropping live performances that converted me (from late 80's to early 90's) and I compare to what I see now in a live situation, there's no comparison. He's become more refined, chooses his notes more carefully, plays less, goes for more 'song oriented' material. He has nothing to prove as a guitarist anymore, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Red Suede · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:30 am Post subject:

Wish you could have seen "The Ford Brothers" show a couple of weeks ago.

JackD · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:49 am Post subject:

At a clinic, I personally asked Robben a question related to this. I asked about his approach to playing over stuff like the old Yellowjackets material—you know, songs with more complex changes. Bluerunner was at this clinic too and heard his response.

What Robben basically said is: I really don’t do that stuff any more. Playing over those complex changes is HARD and it’s not all that fun. He said he’s really not from that tradition and not really into that (although some guys are and are good at it). He said that he really prefers to focus on feel, emotion and melody. He said he really likes doing solos that are more “singy, songy.” I think these thoughts shed some light on Robben’s overall approach right now. BTW, these comments alone had (and are having) a big impact on my playing right now--it's ALL about the feel and the melody!

I’ve been listening to, following, and analyzing Robben’s playing for over 25 years. Yes, I do think he is playing less (notes) and less blazing fast runs, etc. However, I think he is playing better than ever. I recently purchased a couple of Joe Pass DVDs (who I love) and at the time (a few years before his passing) Joe said he doesn’t play “fast” anymore—he said he didn’t care to. I think from Robben’s perspective, it’s just evolution. I actually find that now when Robben “lets it rip” (because he still can) with some blazing notes, it’s more exciting given the feel and the melodic context of the rest of the solo.

All this being said, when he wants to, Robben can still burn it up!

Pablo · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:46 am Post subject:

I definitely think Robben has changed over the years, but that's what I love about him is that he doesn't stay the same is there is always something new on his albums, in the line up of his bands, and in his style.

A few years ago Mark Ford sat in with Robben at Yoshi’s and Robben hardly played any solos. Mark had the spotlight and completely stole the show, which was different but great all the same.

Maybe his energy in the early 90's had something to do with "The Blue Line." I think Robben and Robben fans can agree that Robben, Roscoe, and Tom shared something special. And there is certainly more room in a trio for the lead instrument to stretch out. And since that time, I can’t remember seeing Robben live as a trio – there is always at least a keyboard player.

My other observation would be Robben's focus on song writing. From my experience at last year's (2005) May clinic and from other clinic reports I've read, Robben specifically talks about his focus on song writing and his intentional decision to work on song writing. Maybe there is more focus on the “song” now? …just my observations…

diatonicdude · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject:

Great topic!

I loved the Blue Line era. I also loved “Supernatural” & “Tiger Walk”!

Indeed Robben's music has changed. I disagree that it has actually evolved, implying that it has changed for the better, or to “suit the times”. It has merely changed direction, apparently it seems, because he wishes it to. I would agree, however, his vocals are improving, his productions are more polished, and he has obviously decided to “play” differently.

I also loved the more raw/live sounding recordings. Essentially for me, Robben has done a great job of keeping my interest, and anticipation of what his next release’s direction will be. “Blue moon” & “Keep on Running” were similar in concept, but to me, totally different in the overall vibe, and so much different to “Supernatural”. All 3 Cds’s are essentially song orientated.

The one thing I can say is that we should savour each new release, as we have the past releases. I personally think Robben does not disappoint, and certainly within the last 10 years, as this period has seen his most prolific and progressive change. This epitomises what a true consummate artist is all about, IMHO.

Spatzi, isn't it great to dig out the “Handful of Blues” CD and play “Rugged Road” for that solo, and have the recollection of his blazing live performances from that era? We can do that whenever we feel, because Robben has left his mark, quite literally. Don't despair, I personally believe Robben will pleasantly surprise you/us all one day Cool

DD
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Music is the universal language; speak it with emotion, listen with a passion.

spatzi · Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 65

One thing that I do like about Ford's present direction, is the emphasis for more melody and phrasing. Since I'm a player myself, and was never into speed, it just gives my band more songs of his to cover. I used to think that playing fast was essential to be 'good'. Most guitar players go through a 'speed mania' phase, which hopefully, wears itself out when they mature. Seeing the greats like Ford, slow it down, is a good teaching aid for any musician. It also lets us delve into the roots of the blues, where less if often more.

By the way, the vocalist we are considering for our Ford tribute band, if we get her, is amazing. Young, totally dedicated, with a lot of heart. I am really looking forward to hearing some classic Ford tunes with a bona fiide powerhouse on vocals. Not that Ford isn't good, but this woman is in an entirely different league. Here's an indication: You know the song by Oleta Adams called 'Get here'? She does it at least as good, and sometimes better. She's auditioning tomorrow and trying 'don't let me be misunderstood', 'Worried life blues', and 'Help the poor'.

sidneystreet · Member Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 29

JohnnyZ · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject:

Cal · Member Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Toronto

I was at the January clinic and this question got raised. Someone mentioned that there was usually some guys in the front row with their arms crossed waiting to be impressed. Robben laughed and referred to them as the police - the guys waiting to counting notes, scales, and so on.

I think Robben is definetly more internalized. At the clinic he was clearly very interested in talking about songwriting and less so in discussing specific chords and solos, etc. He told us he felt his most succesful albums were Supernatural and Tigerwalk, albums devoted to his songwriting.

He also directed us to a book called Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo and read a passage which equated guitar playing to yelling at the surf as loud as you can -- from a deep personal place. Giving the music everything you have from your soul. I really think Robben is about the song now. He talked alot about how he worked to find the right chord, the right emotion. The solos, if he had them, weren't really in the picture at least to the same degree.

Another interesting point he made was that in order to make a living, he found songwriting (controlling the rights) far more lucrative than session playing or sideman.

Cal

JohnnyZ · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject:

sfhalo · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:13 am Post subject:

For me..........Robben has absolutely nothing to "prove" when it comes to playing. For the past twenty years, he's amazed me with his technique, tone, style, &, mostly, his soulful feeling. Whether it's solos, chords, phrasing, etc.............it's really about the "feel" and the song. When I first heard Robben sing, I thought "just OK." However, as I became a true fan of his playing, I listened more and more to his voice and there it was time after time............the "feel." Those things you don't teach........you have it or you don't. Though I "had" to sing background vocals when I was playing professionally, I never enjoyed it.......thinking I had a horrible voice. Whenever I hear/heard a soulful voice like Robben's, it made we wish I was more than "just" a guitarist. Robben has the complete package.........amazing guitar skills and a very cool voice, something I'm sure he's worked on his entire career.
Like a sports coach, you don't forget how to coach, you use what you've learned over time and apply it to the new situation. I think this is exactly what Robben has done over the years and we are the lucky ones who get to enjoy it.
One last thing: I mentioned in previous posts that I hadn't played guitar in 27 years and recently returned to playing. Though I lost whatever "chops" I had from years ago, when I picked up my new guitar for the first time, I played one note with vibrato and knew instantly I still had a soulful feel. It's definitely not about the number of notes we play, but the feel we put into each. Robben surely does that! For me, he's the best.

BlueRunner · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject:

I don't really want to delve too much into Johnny Z's marriage here, BUT ...

I've heard tales (like around the office, OK; I wouldn't have any idea personally) that women find some advantages in older, more experienced, and perhaps more patient, men. There's a parallel here somewhere, in the music world. While blues is the thing, deep down Robben is very much a jazz musician. And like many of the greats in jazz, as the musician matures, he or she is able to express deeper and deeper emotions through fewer and fewer notes. It comes with experience, technical proficiency, heart, and a lifelong commitment to the music.

Great thread. Lots of interesting perspectives. Thanks, spatzi!
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- BlueRunner

frank0936 · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: To burn or not

The first time I heard Robben play ( that I knew of), I knew that I had found a real musician. This was the sound I wanted to hear. After many years of listening, I still feel the same way. I was at a clinic that Robben gave a few years ago and he said that he tried to play with "melodic intent". He urged us to try to do the same. On one of his teaching videos he says that he never tried to learn licks, but that he tries to play melodies. Interestingly enough, he also says he never thought guitar fit into jazz - at least not for him. He said there wasn't enough feeling and emotion there for him and that his "home" is the blues. Whether he plays fast or slow, a thousand notes or just one, he always gives himself totally. That's all you can ask of anyone. I still love to hear him play.
Frank