Robben Ford Discussion

rainmkr63 · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: Progressive Rock

I get a hankering for prog. rock some times, I still have a need for hard rock in my life and good progressive rock fits the bill.

My two favorites right now are Dream Theater and Symphony X they have both released new CDs over the last month and they are extraordinary.

Dream Theater’s “Systematic Chaos” is a new beginning for them and using a new Record company. I like most of there stuff and this new one does not disappoint. The first 4 tracks contain more twists and turns then most bands put out in there whole career. It rocks as hard as Pantara did with melodic parts that rival ‘Yes’ back in the day. I first saw them in LA and I had never heard of them before that. I went to the show to see the opening act “The Dixie Dregs” and was blown away by DT and there passionate fans. Track 3 off the new one has an amazing solo by guest Joe Satriani and track 4 has a great solo by Steve Vai, the guitar player for dream theater is John Petrucci and has been the third player on the G3 tours over the last few years so I guess he asked them to play on this new DT.

The other new gem for me is Symphony X “Paradise Lost” Progressive Rock at its best, tracks 7 through 10 are about as good as it gets the rest is fantastic too. I also like there previous release “Odyssey”.

I have Deep Purple tickets I guess they could be seen as progressive Rock these days. I love Steve Morse and the rest of the band but the singer is un-listenable to me these days there last two disks are hard to take because of the vocal.

Just thought I would share my thoughts.

Rob

Millibobs · Senior Member Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 291

Hey Rob, I do some occasional prog recording with a guy called Guy (!) Manning in the UK. More Tull influenced than Yes or Dream Theatre butat the last festival we played, there was something of everything - it's a broad church is prog rock! new album out this year and we are rocking the house!

An old band mate of mine from way back is Andy Tillison of The Tangent - also well worth checking out - best act in Europe except maybe for the Flower Kings.

Another very fine UK outfit is Darwin's Radio - utterly brilliant and very Rush influenced but with their own twist on things. Dec Burke is a hell of a guitarist.

You can google all the above - happy surfing!!

David

JohnnyZ · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:08 am Post subject:

I also turn to Dream Theater for my prog-rock cravings. The new album, Systematic Chaos, is very good, however my favorite is Scenes From A Memory, especially track 6 which is one of the most amazing 11 minutes of music, IMHO. I usually appreciate their new stuff more after seeing them perform it live, and I can't wait until their Boston show next month! (My wife just shakes her head at the mention of me, at 52 years old, going to a DT concert!)

John Petrucci's solo album, Suspended Animation, is a good listen for some heavy guitar.

Also, check out Liquid Tension Experiment, a 2-album collaboration between Petrucci, Tony Levin, Jordan Rudess, and Mike Portnoy. YouTube has a great live clip of them performing Paradigm Shift.
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Soul on Eleven

rainmkr63 · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject:

One of my all time favorites is SFAM, that was the first one I got of DT and got knocked out so became a big fan. I have also worn out “Suspended Animation and both Liquid T. E. ‘s….

DT is not coming here this tour and I am bummed but hopefully they will add another leg to the tour and include Vegas.

I hope you have a great time!

Millibobs:

Thanks for the recommendations, it must be a blast playing that level of music for people.

Later
Rob

Millibobs · Senior Member Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 291

It's like a technical kind of job - lots of detail interspersed with lots of hanging around waiting your your turn...!

The stuff I've played on is quite Jethro Tull - nothing like the DT or Rush stuff you hear, but enough guitar twiddling to keep me happy. The albums are built in a 'modular' fashion with individual musicians being brought in to record their parts. I have my technical limits too - I'll never be a Petrucci or Lifeson.......

When we did the (largely)acoustic set at last years Summer's End Festival at Bilston, it was the first time I'd really played with the full band except for a few rehearsals. Weird.....

I'm not sure anymore what Progressive Rock actually is as a genre but I tend to work on the basis of I listen to and play the stuff I like and sod the category!

I remembered there is a good little video of the Tangent on YouTube playing a track called Lost in London. The live DVD is out now on release and there are a couple of tracks from 25 years ago when I played with Andy in a band called A New Opera in Leeds, UK. So finally, I made it onto a DVD!!!!

Do check out The Tangent - a storming band and well worth a listen.

I have been accused by some European prog sites of being too blues/rock influenced - an imposter! I'm quite proud of that actually, snicker......

rainmkr63 · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:20 am Post subject:

I think i should have started this as Hard Progressive Rock, that is more of what i was getting at.

Millibobs · Senior Member Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 291

ah, then I'll shut up...............

rainmkr63 · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:18 am Post subject:

No problem my friend, keep writing and I will keep reading.

I have gotten myself into a little debate about the new Dream Theater CD on another board. I think that the solo on track 3 sounds like Joe Satriani did it, and track 4 sounds like Steve Vai did the solo.

Everyone is saying it is John Petrucci and of cores that makes sense but man my ears are finding too many fingerprints from these guys for JP to impersonate a style at that level.

Does anyone have an opinion on this or has anyone seen the DVD 'making of' and if it sheds any light on this?

Maybe no one cares; if that is the case I saw a great movie last night called “blood diamond” man that is one great film on so many levels.

Rob

JohnnyZ · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject:

I'm going to have to listen to those tracks before I can comment on whether it's Satch and Vai, or Petrucci. Even then, I'm not so sure my ears are that picky that I can tell...

BTW, thanks for starting this thread. I kind of forgot about Suspended Animation until this, and had a great listen today at work in my lab...

A bit off-topic, but I hate to start another thread. Anyone ever hear of BB Chung King (and the Buddaheads)?!
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Soul on Eleven

rainmkr63 · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject:

Yes, I see they are playing around my region of the country, are they any good?

I was planning on putting “Suspended Animation” in my CD changer and got rushed this morning and forgot, I will give that a spin very soon.

Please let me know if you have any ideas about those solos.

Thanks
Rob

JohnnyZ · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject:

I only found out about BB Chung King and the Buddaheads after checking out some independant Blues label sites. There's one that seems to specialize in "Blues/Rock Guitar", heavily emphasizing "guitar", but at this moment it escapes me...

So, I can't recommend whether BB Chung King and the Buddaheads are worth spending cake, but their clips sound really good. But, for 15 bucks I'd take a chance on their cd "howlin' at the moon". Sounds kick ass...
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Soul on Eleven

Daved · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject:

Class... class... may I have your attention, please... thank you...

...ahem...

ProgRock was one of my favorite genres. I was an ardent follower of it from it's beginnings in the late 60's as a subcatagory in "Psychedellic" rock, thru the period when it started to devide into specific genres each their own, receiving the early classifications of "Classical" rock or "Art" rock, etc. in the early 70's, till synthesizers entered the picture and the term "Progressive rock" finally was coined to blanket the combining of "Synthesizer" rock with several others of the fringe-music catagories.

There are many groups that have been considered "Progressive rock" bands till they finally became commercially viable and embraced by the general public... Genesis, Yes, Supertramp, ELP, Queen, etc.

I'm not sure how much I really care for what is classified as modern "Progressive" these days, but I do still admire the intent. ProgRock was always cutting edge, incorporating unconventional elements into the "rock" genre to experiment and expand and test the musical waters and boundries.... that being one of the beautiful things about rock music.... it's ability to be a musical melting pot for all other styles of music, folk-rock, classical-rock, jazz-rock, country-rock, etc.

Today's "modern" prog rock of course tends to use a lot of the current popular music trends and styles and elements, much of which I do not favor in my older age (rap, chainsaw guitars, droning low end, etc.), but I still appreciate hat there is a musical forum for continued experimentation.

For those who are heavily into Progressive rock and are interested in exploring it's roots, earlier paths, and progressions I am always open and happy to share the magic and splendor of those groups who made and led to what modern ProgRock is today.

Right off the bat, let me throw out 2 of the earliest "Progressive rock" bands whose claims-to-fames are, after all these many years, again currently available (both of which were "one album wonders" who went by the wayside in their time because the general musical community could not understand or appreciate what it was they were doing, but in hindsight are now acknowledged as inspired pioneers of the genre).

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1) Touch : This band's one, self titled, album is generally acknowledged as the official "starting point" for Prog rock tho, at the time, it was classified "Psychedelic" and was so far out that even those into psych rock had a hard time understanding or getting into it.

The album was recorded in L.A. in 1968 out of the inspired and creative young mind of Portland, Oregon's Don Gallucci.
Don, in 1963 (at the tender age of 15), was the keyboard player in the classic frat-rock band, The Kingsmen, and can be heard on the rock classic song, "Louie Louie". However, with the phenominal success of that song, Don was forced to leave the band because of his youth, school, and inability to travel extensively or even get into many of the bar/tavern venues they were playing in.

In the mid 60's, Gallucci had some limited success with his next frat-rock band, Don & The Goodtimes.

With the rapid musical changes of the 60's, the Kingsmen were long gone when Don put together Touch and, inspired by the musical liberalisms of 60's psychedelia... and drugs... took them into a Hollywood Hills, castle-esque house/studio for several months and created this work of art. Creating, designing, and engineering modified and specialized instruments, and poneering new recording techniques, they dove into the project of using the rock format combined with jazz and classical influences, odd time signatures, arrangements, instruments, and styles.

Rumors that leaked amongst the music community drew in such top celebrities of the time, like Mick Jagger (who was so impressed by the music and the producer's [Gene Shively] skills, that he hired him for the Stone's next album, Beggar's Banquet) and members of the Jefferson Airplane, to check out what the boys were doing in their 'castle'. Jimi Hendrix even paid personally for studio time just so he could hear what had been recorded by the time he dropped by.

Anyway, the results were an album, with adventurous fold out cover packaging, so out in left field that it got very little airplay and virtually no touring support, as technology at the time could not make it possible for the band to properly reproduce much of the music live.

Many established Prog stars, such as Kansas's Kerry Livgrin have cited this album and band as a major influence.

If you desire to seek out and explore this band/album, be very aware that the modern musical era's common and severe unimagination in such things as band names has resulted in several recording bands who have dubbed themselves Touch. These bands are uninteresting, uninspired, and in no way related to the first band to use the name.

Be sure you get the original Touch album with such amazing tunes as "We Feel Fine", "Friendly Birds", "Miss Teach", "Down At Circe's Place", "Alesha And Others", and the ambitious "Seventy-Five".

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2) Family Tree : One of the premierly formative elements that led to what was ultimately termed Progressive Rock, was the initiation of the "Concept" album. If asked what was the first concept album, the majority would respond with the Who's, "Tommy", but the music trivia expert's usually would correct them by naming the Pretty Thing's, "P. F. Sorrow" album.
But, the truth is, even they would be wrong.

Six months before "P. F. Sorrow" was released, an album by the Family Tree, entitled "Miss Butters", was released on RCA in May of 1968.

The critics loved it and gave it great reveiws.
The listening public just did not get it and it slipped away virtually unnoticed.

However, as time passed and rock evolved, providing a 'Progressive rock' catagory to shelter and legitimize such things as concept albums, the Family Tree's, "Miss Butters", was finally acknowledged and the now very rare vinyl copies of the album became a much sought after collector's item.

The songs on the album tell the complete life's story of a spinster school teacher, Miss Butters, from birth to death.

Very recently, the album has finally been CD issued for the first time ever, on the Rev-Ola lable, with premiere treatment... careful and meticulous remastering, quality reproduction, with extensive, high quality, informative booklet and packaging.

It was written by my highschool and Canadian friend, Bob Segarini (whom I have mentioned many times before in other threads and posts= The Wackers, Roxy, The Dudes, Segarini, Cats & Dogs, etc.), who is thrilled that it has finally been reissued and very pleased with the treatment, care and respect that Rev-Ola provided.

I highly recommend it for ProgRock completists.
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B C-ing U!
( }:-Daved
"This boy's diseased with rhythm!" -Bing Crosby (Road To Rio, '49)

JohnnyZ · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject:

Nice post, Daved! Always love your insights to the forerunner bands that were not commercialized thus not well known and appreciated except for those few informed and perceptive individuals such as yourself. And, since I have taken a chance and thoroughly enjoyed cds of bands you've recommended that I've never known such as Captain Beyond (self-titled), I'll be sure to check out these bands from your post. Thank you!

BTW, I don't know how much you know or care about Dream Theater, from what I see as today's bar for ProgRock I very much enjoy them. I don't necessarily love everything they've come out with in the past 20 years, but I consider a few of their albums as gems such as Scenes From A Memory and Change of Seasons. I'm still working on their latest album- Systematic Chaos. And, a dvd which I highly recommend for all aspects of a music dvd is Dream Theater - Metropolis 2000: Scenes From New York...

Also, if you know DT's guitarist John Petrucci, and even if you don't, check out the thread in here that I posted about the spoofs on him. I highly respect and admire him for his talent, but it's funny to see someone poking some fun... Laughing

Take care, and keep in touch Daved!

rainmkr63 · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject:

Thank you Daved (and everyone) for your thoughtful response, I got "crisis what crisis" from your recommendation and I like that.

This was a nice prog rock history lesson.

I posted this on a few other sights and a lot of responses were to check out 'Porcupine Tree'. I did and my CD changer is slowly being taken over by them, please check them out.

My other winner (not prog) is Roscoe Beck's solo disk "walk on" man this disk kicks, so much soul oozes from every song. I bought it from him at an Eric Johnson show two weeks ago.

Rob

Daved · Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:29 am Post subject:

Correction:

I wrote that many name the Pretty Things album "Parachute" as the first concept rock album.
That is incorrect.
THAT album is not a "concept" album, but rather, just a collection of individual songs.

What I actually meant to say was the Pretty Things "P.F. Sorrow" album.

I can't believe I didn't catch this earlier, but I have now corrected it in the original post.
My only excuse was that my brother dropped by to pick me up and, in a hurry, I hit the submit button before proof reading and didn't catch the mistake till last night.
Sorry 'bout that... Embarassed