Robben Ford Discussion

[brookgannon]

Does anyone know enough about Robbens musical history to tell me how he got his ear together? I am currently working on my relative pitch (hearing the scale degrees over chords). And basically need some inspiration; this is a long road.

[elizabeth]

Hi brookgannon, and welcome.

At Robben's first clinic, he spoke quite a bit about ear training, and reiterated what my experience had always been. You listen, play, listen, play, then listen and play some more.

When I was a very young singer/songwriter, I was surprised to discover that there is a substantial helping of inate talent involved (I thought everyone could sing the first note of songs we knew..) Older and wiser (?) I still do not comprehend that some people cannot hear "clinkers" (sorry, Aeolian, I have heard a few wrong notes in my time, some of 'em right out o' my own vocal chords!) *getting strong mental image here of Lucy trying to find the note in one of her classic escapades!*

As a student of learning theory, I think that mnemonics can work auditorially and kinesthetically. I believe that you can familiarize your memory with sound, and "practicing" (flash cards, if you will!) with a good Steinway is my chosen method. (I no longer have mine...the loss of it was part of the reason for my journey, so I guess it is a good thing...)

I have done this with middle and elementary school students. I have them, "Sing me a middle C," then I have them notice whatever margin of error. It quickly remedies itself...the mind is a wonderful thing (IMHO!) although I get made fun of quite often!
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[brookgannon]

So, Robben did not use a regimented ear training approach per say but just "played and listen, etc" for many years. I think my problem for the first eight years of playin is I skipped the listening portion.

Your ET method seems to be the memorization of a single pitch to reference other pitches from? Does this work for you while impovising? Do you play what your "musical mind hears"? Thanks for your time Brook

[elizabeth]

...but yeah, I sing whatever feels right to me. My training was the reverse...when I was a kid, they freaked out when my piano teacher snatched the music off the piano, and I continued to pay a four part Beethoven sonata. When I finished, she asked me if I was missing anything, adding, "I KNEW IT...you have been playing by ear all along!"

Someone once taught me a vocal warm-up method that serves double duty as an ear training exercise. You open your throat and begin to sing from the low register, moving up in pitch until you find your most "comfortable" zone. If you learn to identify that "zone" you have a reference from which to work. (Sometimes I crack myself up...I teach history this same way!)

And you are more than welcome...I often feel like an idiot groupie (I don't think I fit either of those job descriptions) when I hear some of our people talking about amps and pedals, so it is a relief to anchor on to terra firma. (Besides, I am a teacher...my time isn't worth much!)

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www.elizabethgage.com

[brookgannon]

Thanks for the exersize. I know guitar players including myself concentrate way too much on gear. Many of us can't seem to grasp that we are 80% of the tone we are getting. I don't have the inate ability you seem to have but with practice I will catch-up. Does anyone else have any imput on this subject? Brook

[Aeolian]

Elizabeth,

The wrong notes thing comes from an interview with the vibraphonist Gregory Hutchinson that I heard on the radio. I latched on to it, as a drummer friend once told me that I played wrong notes better than anybody. Of course he's a big fan of Scofield and Capitan Beefheart and other cats that like to get out there.

A sking buddy said once that "If you don't fall down once in a while, you arent' trying hard enough". Give me a vamp like Cissy Strut, and I'll try every note at lease once.

Brookgannon,

I was told by a really great guitarist to transcribe everything I liked. He then proceeded to have me transcribe a McLaughin head. As I worked out each bar, he stopped me and had me analyze it so I would remember why it worked. This did two things, it sharpened my ear for the intervals and gave me new ideas of things that would work (so I wouldn't have to stab at so many wrong notes )

I really believe in intervals. I think that is what makes a note sound interesting. The interval from the tone center of the chord it's being played over, and even more so, the interval from the note preceding it.

Playing scales in intervals also helps familiarize the ear with the sound of different intervals. Play a mixolydian in fourths and it sounds Robbenish. Sixths remind one of Martino, sevenths of Holdsworth. And so on. The more you are comfortable with the sound of different intervals and whether they create tension or relaxation, the easier it will be to pick one from wherever you are at the moment.

Another important part of ear training is tone production. Hear a sound in your head and make the guitar produce it. Don't settle for close, keep squeezing and relaxing different things, holding the pick at different angles and so on. When you get that sound, go on to another one. The idea is to get to where your hands automatically do what is necessary to get the sound in your head. A lot of the gymnastics that guitarists do is to change how the guitar is held, or how it is presented to the amp. Holding it against the body tightens up the sound improving articulation in fast runs. Dropping low and letting it hang free of the body, opens up the sound, and for those of us with 335's puts it in line with the speaker creating feedback

This is kind of like in Karate Kid when Miyagi presents Daniel with a bonsai. "Close eyes, picture tree. Open eyes, now cut". Hopefully it gets easier to find the zone where you hear a run in your head, fully formed with the tone and all, and it comes out of the amp without your realizing (or thinking about) how it happened.

Work out the excersizes at home, then go out and play without thinking about it. At the October clinic Robben was quoting from the Zen Guitar book about "shouting at the waves". Take a tape recorder and listen to it later. Robben also talked about trying everything and throwing out the bad notes. I guess I'm still working on finding the bad ones. But over time Pavlov will prevail and you'll remember not to do that again. Besides the deliberate practice at home will give you plenty of vocabulary to fool around with.

Most of all, remember, it's music, not a math excersize.

Cheers
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There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com

[Bluelobster]

[frank0936]

I was at a clinic with Robben once. Someone asked about solos and how to make them interesting. Robben replied. "Find the wrong notes....then don't play 'em". I thought at the time that it wasn't exactly what I was hoping for, but I have to come to realize that it was just what I needed to hear. The idea of making a card with the different intervals is great. I had a choir director that did that. You put it on a 3"x5" card and keep it with you and practice them every time you have a break. It works for your playing and your voice. If you have time, join a local community chorus or choir. Before you can sing, you have to learn to listen. You playing will improve. Tape record your rehearsals and listen to them. Play with others as often as possible.
Frank