Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:00 am Post subject: ACTION
Haaaaaaaaa , at last there is some action . It was really fun to read this. The only time i've been upset with R.Ford's music it's when some
craziest people than me put the CD 16 hours a day , no break.
Along with this , it's intresting to notice some people think Robben's tone is homogeneized, without lijfe, dull lines .......................
I've put this on my favorites. I notice Scott L. is overthere and some of you dudies. Party on / blob
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Southern California
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:03 am Post subject:
That's guys comments about Robben are unbelieveable! I realize that everyones tastes are different but there are some things that just can't be disputed. When a guy says, "Great but no fire or dynamics. He just churns out tasty lick after tastly lick which gets to be dull without air in between." about RF it tells me he simply doesn't get it and never will.
Was it Fats Waller who said when asked 'what is Jazz' - "Man, if you gotta ask, you're every going to know."
I say to anyone who asks 'What is it that makes Robben Ford so good?' the same thing. If you have to ask, you aren't ever going to know.
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:26 am Post subject: What is jazz
Once Hendrix was asked "what is Jazz".
Hi replie " Jazz is Blue Moon ".
No Kiddin'.
In fact one or more of these guys are always wearing their earplugs,
thereofre you might think they always forget to brush their teeth.
eeerkkkkk.
Blob
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 328 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:31 am Post subject:
I bump into some guitar players once in a while, specialy during blues jam sessions. Roughly you can split this "guitar family" in two types. The first type is the guy who knows and plays all the tricks, uses his guitar as an extention of his organ on stage, does endless SRV solo attempts and only can talk about gear, especially his gear because that is the best. You recognize these pittyfull lonely guys! The second one plays with his heart, has an old wreck of a Fender and dito Amp, drinks too much while talking about women, making jokes and enjoying life and the company of his friends. They usually can change strings and tune up, but that's about it!
Sounds familiar? _________________ "Don't play what's there, play what's not there" Miles Davis
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:55 am Post subject:
I couldn't believe this. Forget my SRV thread, Even though I don't feel he belongs in the same group as Jimi and Jeff, at least he could PLAY the thing.
Tab Benoit can not physically play the guitar. I've never heard so many muffed notes, stilted phrasings and horrible tone. Never mind the limited vocabulary of licks. It's one thing to hear an ocasional muffed note on an old Robert Johnson recording. Think about the stuff he was using, and that he was playing slide on it too. Besides, he invented this stuff. And the rest of the playing around that muffed note has soul. Tab Benoit sounds like a first year student trying awkwardly to play the same riff. With the ego of a teenager trying to play faster than his abilities. And it's not that he's muffing fast runs. He drops clams all over the place. He does have a decent voice, and I saw him once jump behind the drum set and put up a pretty decent groove. He's actually a much better drummer that guitarist. And to think that I can go down to the Blues section at the local Tower and there will be two or three of his CD's there, while I had to catch Garth playing in a 15 foot wide club to buy Man On A Mission.
There's a cat around here named Tommy Castro who is billed as the hardest working man in the biz (old James Brown appelation). I read an interview where he said "I'm not the greatest guitar player around, but I sing pretty good and I put on a good show". So I give him his props. He knows what he's got. And yes he puts on a great show. But he's no guitar hero. I get really disturbed with I hear people calling him that. A couple of years ago I heard some woman standing in front of the stage screaming about how great Tommy's guitar playing was. I just looked over in amazement. The previous week, I had seen the same woman standing in the same place listening to John Wedemeyer, who is an incredible guitar player and my second favorite after Robben. Sorry Garth, you're right up there too, in fact I don't understand why you, John, Terry Hiatt, Ken Harrill and all the other awesome local players, along with their counterparts in towns all over the country, are not in the record bins instead of Tab and his ilk. It's almost like there's a backlash against being able to play. People mistake awkward, ham handed playing for soul. And someone who has comand of their instrument is homogenized and souless. When I hear Steve Vai's Fender Surrender, I don't hear a souless shredder. I hear a guy who's really worked developing an amazing facility with his instrument, using every thing he's got to put his heart into an homage to Jimi's Woodstock Am jam.
And so I ask, "what's wrong with being able to play?" "What's wrong with professionalism?" "Why to things have to be drug down to the lowest common denominator?"
Oh well, I guess that's why we're here. To celebrate quality. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 401 Location: College Station, TX
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:59 am Post subject:
What a hoot! Thanks for sharing, Kirk. What really makes me laugh is the Tab Benoit comment. How ironic - when RF came through Texas in 95(?) Benoit opened for him here in Bryan - and he sucked. Really played up the "cajun and voodoo thang" but it was very contrived. Jump back to the Sonny Landreth thread - here is a guy who evokes a culture and region through his music better than anyone. This is the difference between "being" the music and playing "at" the music - honesty will always prevail!
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 401 Location: College Station, TX
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:03 pm Post subject:
A - Another hoot - looks like you were replying the same time I was - with the same impression. We need to meet somewhere between California and Texas and really have a good bitch session about these hacks like Tab! First pitcher is on me!
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Southern California
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:43 pm Post subject:
This kind of thing bugs me to no end. There is no direct relationship between talent and popularity. Just look at pop music these days or watch the grammys on TV. Talent is not a requirement. There is so much crap out there that is passed off as being the greatest thing on the planet because far too many people have 'simple' tastes and little or no appeciation for what real talent is. Meanwhile, there are countless people out there who get next to no recognition or struggle to make a living that are far more talented that the 'artists' you see on the grammys that make millions a year. Many of these talented people we talk about here on this board and in fact, some of them are even members of this board. But your average music listener seems to need flashy light shows, fancy clothing, or commercial endorsements to consider someone talented.
I guess I wish more people had better taste. Not my taste necessarily, but just better taste than what seems to be out there. Then there might be more really good music that would be easier to find.
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 328 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:00 pm Post subject:
Aolian wrote:
Quote:
And so I ask, "what's wrong with being able to play?" "What's wrong with professionalism?"
There is nothing wrong with these things. But still, there are players that only do tricks, and there are players who really can play and make music. (like Steve Vai!) _________________ "Don't play what's there, play what's not there" Miles Davis
Back in the 80's, when I arrived at University I went to this thing called the Student Union Societies Fair (or something like that). The idea is that alla the Student Union Societies put up a stand and recruit new members.
I stopped by the "Jazz/Blues Society" stand and met the President:
marinblues: "Hi"
President. "Hello"
marin: "So you guys are into Jazz and Blues?" (what conversaton starter, eh?)
President: "Oh yes, very much so!"
marin: "Are there any musician among your members? I was hoping to play in a band."
President: "Of course, a large number of our members are musician. I am a bass player myself"
marin: "Oh wow, do you like Weather Report?"
President: "Well...yes....kind of....I'm not too keen on Jaco Pastorius..."
marin: "Oh really, what wrong with Jaco??"
President: "Well...how can I say....he play too many notes."
I made a comment about his his resemblance with a certain part of the human body (which I'd rather not quote), I turned around 180?, joined a jazz band and played on a weekly basis for 2 years in the local student bar. I never saw the President or any of the JB Society bum-heads ever again.
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:32 pm Post subject:
I think there is a distinction between "entertainer" and "musician". It's the same with all the arts. The masses would rather be entertained than challenged. Heck, sometimes I feel like a little mindless entertainment when I'm tired or distracted (in small doses). That's why I can enjoy Tommy Castro mugging to the girls in front of the stage while banging on one note. It's entertainment. The band is grooving and I'm there to dance with my girlfriend. I'm certainly not there to hear killer guitar.
Los Lonely boys were entertainers. Falling on their backs on stage, exhorting the audience to say "hell yeah", and so on. Unfortunately, I was there in a mindset to hear music. Robben strolled out on to the stage, politely thanked the audience for coming, and proceeded to deliver just that. And almost didn't get an encore (they actually had turned on the lights before he came back)
These things go in cycles. I hold out hope that knowing how to play will be in demand again someday. I've seen audiences respond to it. Breakthrough is available. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 534 Location: SF Bay area
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject: A few comments...
A few comments, in no particular order:
Aeolian, I had lots of company yelling, "Morrrrrrrrre," after Robben's set. The man sitting next to me, who had come to hear Los Lonely Boys, was blown away (and on his feet) after hearing Robben.
Yelling, "Hell, yeah!" was a highlight for my seventh grade companion, so I guess it all depends on your perspective. (He really loved hearing Robben live for the first time, too! )
Telefunk, if you and Aeolian get together for a bitch session, I sure would love to come along to listen (okay, I would giggle, probably...) I woudn't even put in my two cents...I just want to hear you two...!
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 886 Location: SF Bay Area
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: A few comments...
elizabeth wrote:
A few comments, in no particular order:
Aeolian, I had lots of company yelling, "Morrrrrrrrre," after Robben's set. The man sitting next to me, who had come to hear Los Lonely Boys, was blown away (and on his feet) after hearing Robben.
e
Elizabeth,
I was hoping you were leading the charge up there. When they turned on the lights, the people around me started filing for the doors. I was standing there pounding my hands as hard as I could and they were looking at me like I was nuts. All I could figure is that they didn't appreciate what they'd just seen (heard). Normally when you go to a Robben show, everyone there knows what to expect. This was different as I suspect many were regular Fogheads (listeners of the sponsoring radio station for folks outside the Bay Area) and didn't know Robben from Adam. It's great that some around you caught the fever. It's like fine wine. You have to be exposed to some to learn the difference. It just seems to me that it didn't come across as well as we the converted would have expected. That they were more impressed by stage antics and youthfull energy than mature musicianship.
This is the base of this thread, that the general populace seems to be more attracted to the sizzle than the steak. And to actually cannonize the sizzle and toss out the steak. We are left to echo Clara Peller and ask "where's the beef?", while the masses are following Andre Aggasi's "image is everything".
Telefunk1 wrote:
This is the difference between "being" the music and playing "at" the music - honesty will always prevail!
In the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce lee talked about the practitioners of contrived motions and poses related to mystical animals and such. He called it a "fancy mess" and "organized dispair". He said that "rather than being 'in' combat [or music in our case], the practitioners are 'doing something about' combat." When Robben was reading from Zen Guitar, I kept thinking about this other book. There is a lot of wisdom in there that applies in similar ways to what we are trying to achive. I almost wanted to send Robben a copy if I knew where to send it. _________________ There are no such things as wrong notes, there's only the look on your face.
My Stuff: www.stevekirbymusic.com
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Haaaaaaaaa , at last there is some action . It was really fun to read this. The only time i've been upset with R.Ford's music it's when some
blob
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