Scott Henderson Discussion

TaeKwonDonut · Joined: 20 Apr 2015 Posts: 101

I don't see how its different but whatever.

For the last time.. this thread says Santana said Beyonce can't sing.. no where does he say that. He doesn't consider her a singer, singer. Fair enough.. Her career is not focused on pure vocal performance, but more focused on appearance and sex and fashion. That's what he means. But we are all entitled to our opinions.

Santana said Beyonce can't sing!!! OMG!!! He's a total talentless douchebag!!

peter_heijnen · Joined: 11 Jan 2016 Posts: 184

Nobody is saying he is a douchebag, let alone talentless.

But saying Adele is a singers singer and Beyonce isn't, is nothing less than ignorant. Beyonce is a fabulous singer and all the pro singers i know adore and study her because of her vocal qualities.

That's the significant difference with Lifeson (the player that i love as much as Scott loves Ritchie). All the pro guitarplayers i know don't even know him, let alone they consider him a players player.

TaeKwonDonut · Joined: 20 Apr 2015 Posts: 101

What is the title of the thread?

Do you have the quote where he says she can't sing? or is a quote saying he doesn't consider her a singers, singer in the same vein as Adele?

It's the same thing as Lifeson, whether your frame of reference is your pro player friends who don't know Lifeson (yeah I know pros too, maybe some very personally lol).. a lot of them who have grown up on Lifeson. So your frame of reference is not global. And also I understand what they mean by not being a players player, the same way I understand what Santana is saying.

It's one thing to say he doesn't think of her the same way as Adele and I think that's nonsense. It's another to say he said she can't sing.

peter_heijnen · Joined: 11 Jan 2016 Posts: 184

Exactly, my frame of reference is not global. That's exactly why i asked Scott, because in north America my generation grew up with Rush.

But besides that, i was looking for the reference of top pro players that are not strictly rock oriented as opposed to the typical rock fan that voted Lifeson year after year #1 rock player of the world in the 80's. I'm a pro too, nothing to lol at all btw, that is simply my environment. And in that environment nobody knows Lifeson. A fact that i am comfortable with here in the Netherlands.

But to get back to the phrase that started this: Beyonce is not a singers singer like Adele. That to me is almost like saying Alex Lifeson is not a players player like Andy Summers.

Saying Beyonce is not but Adele is a singers singer is totally ignorant of Beyonces stellar vocal qualities! Unless Carlos didn't even take care to listen even once to what she really does.

TaeKwonDonut · Joined: 20 Apr 2015 Posts: 101

I wouldn't consider Andy Summers a players player either for what its worth.. his grooves are nice and sound.. but he's not a players player like Steve Howe.

Wait did I just say Andy Summers can't play?

I'm messing with ya btw

spellbound · Joined: 13 Aug 2015 Posts: 21

You know what they say about opinions.

dizzy · Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 406

It's funny because the way Santana feels about Beyoncé is the way I feel about Santana. He fused Latin grooves with Blues Rock guitar which was important but to me the content of his playing is superficial.

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

It's an interesting discussion guys, but the bottom line is that Carlos Santana said Beyonce is not a singer's singer. In anyones frame of reference, that means she lacks the vocal talent to be considered one of the best. Or, it means that her dancing/ showmanship outshines her vocal ability. Neither one is true - so his statement is 100% bullshit. He said later that his statement was taken out of context - nice effort, but he should've simply apologized for what he said. Concerning the wording at the beginning of this thread, it may not be correct, but my reply would've been the same to "can't sing" or "not a singer, singer". It's insulting either way.

Apparently he hasn't really listened to Beyonce, and may have only heard her biggest hits, some of which don't really feature her best vocal abilities. I have really listened to her and I can say without a doubt that she's one of our best pop vocalists, regardless of how good she looks or dances.

TaeKwonDonut · Joined: 20 Apr 2015 Posts: 101

They both suck in my book cause they ain't about that bass about that bass about that bass.. and also cause their tunes don't reference red cups and pick up trucks

Time to turn our attention to something more profound and new like Jeffy's bass education feud with Steve Bailey. Snore.

emd · Joined: 14 Jun 2016 Posts: 1

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

I thought everyone knew that. He composes very little of his music - most of it was written by other musicians he worked with, usually keyboard players. It doesn't matter, he plays great enough to make up for it. Look up his albums on Wikipedia if you want to know who wrote which songs.

Rasik · Joined: 20 Apr 2017 Posts: 6

Carlos does say some contradictory/outrageous stuff & this time it has come back to bite him. He apologised & rightly so. However Scott I would be hesitant to make a sweeping statement that his composers have "less talent" than Beyonce's. Sure there is some pretty ordinary stuff in his large volume of work but as we know, he has hung a lot with Wayne, Herbie, John, Tony Williams, Alice Coltrane & others, all of whom have had compositional input into his recorded & live material; I would rate all of those mentioned as top shelf composers, may be the best ever. Furthermore he has recorded A Love Supreme with John & it is always on his live set. So although you are my guitarist of choice Scott & my collection contains everything you have recorded (some cost me a lot of money haha... early TT), I would take issue with your compositional observation. Would love to see you in new Zealand some time.....

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

I'm kind of surprised that you'd think I was talking about the great composers you just mentioned. I'm talking about his pop composers, post "comeback" era. Not one of them has written anything even close to the quality of Beyonce's writers - so I stand by what I said. Send me a link to a tune you think is a great composition by his current writing staff - I don't think you can.

I'll stand behind my statement with Me Myself and I, Crazy In Love, Single Ladies... I could go on. She has a catalogue of killer tunes. So does Carlos if you go back 30 years, and include famous jazz composers.

Rasik · Joined: 20 Apr 2017 Posts: 6

No, I didn't think you were referring to those composers at all, knowing your love of their music. I just thought the observation was a bit sweeping & neglecting Carlos's work with those greats, & I didn't want Carlos's legacy of that period to be overlooked; but thanks for clarifying that you were referring to contemporary pop which I don't know too much about, since I don't listen to much of it here in New Zealand. I agree; from what I had heard of Carlos's recent pop endeavours, they seem mostly pretty weak. However, I do think that Smooth, Maria Maria, Corazon Espinado as examples, are genuinely good compositions. As you correctly say, it seems Beyoncé has a vast catalogue of well constructed tunes. Interestingly Carlos & Beyonce have performed together at Superbowl. Santana did put on a great live show here in Auckland 2 nights ago. Thanks for your reply Scott. Sorry to inform you, lol, but 2 of my friends & I have had all night sessions of the first 3 TT albums on several occasions... you are well known in Auckland!

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

I'm not sure how much of the writing Carlos did on his old albums, but I really like some of the songs. Then he made a pop comeback with Supernatural and I was like, huh? I've heard Smooth and I guess you can't go wrong with a minor i to V progression, but I'd hardly call it a composition. It's an incredibly generic pop tune like thousands before it in my opinion, whereas I wouldn't say that about a lot of Beyonce's music, which is ultra hip, has unexpected and musical modulations, and high level production. I imagine her writers are musicians who actually listen to jazz and borrow some of the harmonic elements. Check out her performance on Me Myself and I - it's ridiculous.

I wouldn't even be saying all this if Carlos hadn't insulted her. On another subject, but partly related to this and some recent events, I've just about had it with musicians who have to medicate themselves with booze and weed to deal with their lives. My playing sucks ass and I'm dealing with that fact stone cold sober, because I need to keep improving and I don't wanna die early and hurt the people who love me. I miss my friends who are gone now because of substance abuse. I have a deep respect for Jeff Beck and George Benson who are still playing their asses off in their 70's because they stayed away from that shit. Obviously, Carlos didn't.

Sorry for the rant... anyway, thanks for the support and hope to play in New Zealand someday! Get me a gig there!