Scott Henderson Discussion

paskiainen · Joined: 20 Mar 2016 Posts: 41

Hi, Scott

I know that you've been asked this many times, but have you lately checked any new modellers and how they sound today? There must be huge effort (well maybe not since they know you don't compromise on tone) to bring kempers and fractals on your doorstep and try to get you to use them.

Maybe you'd like the new yamaha thr100HD. It's like a digital amp but with analog user interface. Seems to sound terrific and with no boring menus to scroll.

By the way, if the day sometime comes that Scott ditches his tube gear for modellers the tube days will be officially over.

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

The last amp modeler I tried was the Line 6 Helix, and before that it was the Kemper. I couldn't get my tone with either one of them - the thought of using a Yamaha instead of a Marshall causes horrible psychological trauma in my brain.

I'm just speaking for myself here - modelers are handy for getting many different sounds without having to carry around heavy amps and cabinets. I've yet to hear one that sounds as good as the real thing, but I said that about virtual speakers, and now the IR technology has changed my mind. Maybe one day I'll be able to say the same for modelers.

paskiainen · Joined: 20 Mar 2016 Posts: 41

Thanks for answering. Heh, I knew you were disgusted by Yamaha. Maybe you puked when you heard that Allan started to use them exclusively.

But name is a name and only thing matters is the sound. This is not probably the best demo of the thing but it sounds quite reasonable. Maybe not as an ultimate rig, but instead as a tube saver for practice etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBghYvNEAEo

guitarplayer · Joined: 08 Jun 2015 Posts: 64

This is some cool tech from Roland. Robben Ford and Eric Johnson are checking it out. Looks nice for a practice amp or grab and go amp. Is isn't modeling per say, but a looks like it has potential.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex1wLwfyOnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz9y8yCLYWQ

pbognar · Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 24 Location: Milwaukee, WI

paskiainen · Joined: 20 Mar 2016 Posts: 41

Ok so I went and bought the thr100HD head and I gotta say it's a gamechanger. Axe-fx and kemper are not in this league. They both do sound very good but don't feel like a real tube amp. This one does. It's really hard to believe there's no tubes in it. It takes pedals reallly well too and it's unbelievalbe lightweight. The dual amp configuration is really nice thing to have also.

Highly recommended. Maybe it's time for Scott too to update his korg pandora for something bettter? Just say yes to them when they come knocking your door.

paskiainen · Joined: 20 Mar 2016 Posts: 41

Sorry for that Yamaha advertising Scott. I have nothing but the highest of respect for you and your art.

This is already too much but I'm sure that many of us would like to know one more thing about this topic: Did you try to profile your recording setup with the kemper? I'd imagine that would be a really great tool for you in the studio and maybe even on stage also.

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

I guess I should just be honest here. True Tone music asked me and Adam Stark to try the Kemper because they were thinking about becoming a dealer. We had it at my house for a whole day, sometimes using the instructional manual, and sometimes just tweaking it on our own - after about 5 hours with it, we gave up, and we told True Tone that we weren't able to get one useful sound out of it. We also tried an IR capture of my setup, and after trying it three times, we couldn't make it sound even close.

Many people who use modeling amps think they sound good - it's certainly their right to think so. But if they compared them in the same room with a plexi Marshall or black face Deluxe or Super, they'd clearly hear that amp modelers aren't there yet. It doesn't mean they can't fool people into thinking they're real amps, but a real amp doesn't mean it's a great amp.

countandduke · Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 197

That's really interesting to hear you say that Scott because I (and lots of others I'm sure) value your opinion very much. I've played lots of different amps but never an actual "vintage plexi" so when I play a modeling amp on a "plexi" patch, I don't really know what I'm missing... From what I understand the Kemper uses a tone or something that goes through the amp and the speakers and then gets "analyzed"... Sounds like the technology is improving but my own ears prefer my own plexi build. It's hand wired not "vintage" but to me it breathes much more than a solid state modeler. I DO like my line 6 pod HD through my plexi but I have to judge amps on what they sound like and not just by the name...

Scott, did you think the Fractal did a better job than the Kemper? How about the Eleven Rack thingy? I remember you saying they turned you down on your offer to help them, IDIOTS...

Best,
Chris

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

The Fractal has the most knobs to tweak, so it's probably more versatile but I still don't like the way it sounds. The eleven was terrible IMO, but now they have the Helix, which is much better. I'd have to compare it again to the Fractal to give an intelligent reply on which is better. (but I won't because I have better things to do with my time). The Kemper was useless IMO, but that's Adam Stark's opinion too, and he's a guitarist/ amp builder with great ears.

daschwarjazz · Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 28

The Axe Fx 2 has gone through quite a few updates, particularly over the past couple years. If you know someone who has one with the most recent firmware, it might be worth your time to check it out. You should be able to more or less recreate your setup. The Axe Fx has a model of the CAA 3+SE (your signature amp is based off of the rhythm channel, correct?), RC Booster, Octafuzz, etc. Add a Redwirez IR of a Marshall cab with greenbacks mic'd with a 57, and you'll be in the ballpark. Additionally, you can tonematch your own isolated guitar tracks for even greater accuracy.

I agree with you on the Kemper. Some people swear by it, but I couldn't bond with it. You can't bend the amps to your will like you can with the Axe Fx and the effects are not nearly as good. I also recommend staying away from the DV Mark Multiamp and the Atomic Amplifire; both of which sound good on paper but not so much in practice. Of course, that's just my opinion!

Scott Henderson · The Man Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2135

I've heard people say good things about it, but I've also heard from someone who tried the newest version and said "it still sounds fake." Actually I'm the wrong guy to even be talking about amp modeling and speaker IR's because I don't use them - I'm just doing research for friends of mine who live in apartments and can't turn up. I have a room with no windows and soundproofing so I can crank up a 100 watt Marshall until around 11PM.

Also, I really like doing it the old fashioned way. I'm still a fan of vintage amps with real tubes, changing the mic position, using different pedals, etc. Maybe it's just because I'm old, but I feel like I'm respecting the craft more when I'm using the same type of gear that all my heroes used, but making it sound like me. I'm sure Axe FX 2 could get me in the ball park, but I seriously doubt that it sounds as good as the real thing. That being said, if I find someone who'd loan me the newest version, I'd spend some time with it just to have the latest news to tell my friends.

paskiainen · Joined: 20 Mar 2016 Posts: 41

I have a nice analogy here:

Real girls (amps) come with lots of problems. You have to buy them roses (tubes) once in a while, they sometimes are inconsistent with their audio output, may have smoke coming from their ears when they get mad, they may smell weird once in a while, they may be heavy to lift and so on..

Well, you could buy a robot girl which doesn't have these problems and it would feel quite nice next to you. It would talk to you like a real one and only nice stories and blaa blaa. You knew it would be artificial but you would have persuaded yourself that this is the future and real girls are not needed anymore. You would force yourself to believe everyday that emulation is good enough.

But why bother when you can have the real deal and not just an emulation. Fake is a fake and real is real. With real amps there's no question how true it sounds and even thinking about it. They just are real. Today too many people waste their time with this problem comparing emulation to a real thing and feeling sad that the emulation can't ever be the real thing no matter what. Complete madness if money is not the forcing factor.

I have to say that Yamaha Thr100 is quite nice though. You even get fake tube glow with them. Almost like the real thing. A great tube saver that's for sure.

paskiainen · Joined: 20 Mar 2016 Posts: 41

That's a really great point that I haven't yet heard that although it may be possible to get a very accurate model with kemper on real amps, great real amps is wholly different thing. It also makes sense. It would be very likely to have a great profile of a peavey bandit which works almost as bad as the real thing but profiling scotts beautiful setup accurately with the same principles is wholly different manner.

pbognar · Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 24 Location: Milwaukee, WI

So this brings into question, what is a real amp?

What if we had solid state or computer based technology before tube amps came into existence, and all records were made with "that sweet solid state sound" ? Would the world's guitarists be constantly trying to emulate those sounds? We're BB King and Allan Holdsworth not using real amps?

Just saying...