Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Chick Corea
Now that Chick has passed, i hope what seemed to be "bad blood" between you Scott and him is over.
I mean, i am sure he was hard to work with but at the end of the day, it was a long time ago and everyone is entitled to his own beliefs.
RIP maestro.
Just in the last few years, we lost Allan, Chick, Gary Burton had a stroke and had to retire.
Keith Jarrett had a stroke and can't move his left arm and is basically retired.
The only one left from that era is Herbie. _________________ Plan like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
I wouldn't call it "bad blood". He hired me for a gig, but the things he wanted me to do (and not to do) didn't have much to do with music - it was more about Scientology.
I don't agree that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, not when those beliefs hurt other people. Scientology is an evil, dangerous cult which has destroyed thousands of lives. Do some research before you say everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, because that would include Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, and countless other cult leaders who succeeded in brainwashing people to follow a herd mentality. That kind of bullshit destroys critical thinking and is dangerous on every level.
Here's what I think of the most when I think of Chick Corea.
I teach at Musicians Institute in Hollywood, right next to a Scientology building. Many times I've seen about 20 children between the ages of 4 and 10 come out of that building with their little Scientology uniforms, and get on a bus which takes them to further brainwashing - so they can spend the rest of their lives believing that Xenu the space alien sent the souls of dead aliens to live in their bodies and fuck up their lives. It makes me sick to my stomach to know those kids are being trained as minions for a greedy cult that only cares about the $300,000 in money or services each member has to give in order to rise to the top levels of the organization. This is CHILD ABUSE, plain and simple, as bad or worse than physical abuse.
So fuck Chick Corea and all the other evangelists of Scientology like Tom Cruise and John Travolta. They endorse a poison to society, just like Rush Limbaugh did, and I threw a fucking party when he died.
But let me say one positive thing about Chick - he was absolutely one of the baddest jazz pianists to ever live, and I'll always enjoy hearing him play. Just like I still enjoy watching Woody Allen movies.
Last edited by Scott Henderson on Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total
I wouldn't call it "bad blood". He hired me for a gig, but the things he wanted me to do (and not to do) didn't have much to do with music - it was more about Scientology.
I don't agree that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, not when those beliefs hurt other people. Scientology is an evil, dangerous cult which has destroyed thousands of lives. Do some research before you say everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, because that would include Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, and countless other cult leaders who succeeded in brainwashing people to follow a herd mentality. That kind of bullshit destroys critical thinking and is dangerous on every level.
Here's what I think of the most when I think of Chick Corea.
I teach at Musicians Institute in Hollywood, right next to a Scientology building. Many times I've seen about 20 children between the ages of 4 and 10 come out of that building with their little Scientology uniforms, and get on a bus which takes them to further brainwashing - so they can spend the rest of their lives believing that Xenu the space alien sent the souls of dead aliens to live in their bodies and fuck up their lives. It makes me sick to my stomach to know those kids are being trained as minions for a greedy cult that only cares about the $300,000 in money or services each member has to give in order to rise to the top levels of the organization. This is CHILD ABUSE, plain and simple, as bad or worse than physical abuse.
So fuck Chick Corea and all the other evangelists of Scientology like Tom Cruise and John Travolta. They endorse a poison to society, just like Rush Limbaugh did, and I threw a fucking party when he died.
But let me say one positive thing about Chick - he was absolutely one of the baddest jazz pianists to ever live, and I'll always enjoy hearing him play. Just like I still enjoy watching Woody Allen movies.
Your comment suggests that somehow he was involved in child abuse because he was part of the crazy religion that is brainwashing children. By analogy, that means that any catholic in the US is a pedophile by association, since they are part of a religion which had high officials caught doing stuff to children.
Lets even take it a step further. Every American is a murderer by association when you are a citizen of a country that killed a few hundred thousand civilians in the middle east.
I am not a religious guy.
Those connections you make between Chick, Woody Allen and Hitler are ridiculous.
The way you change things is by winning people over.
Calling them stupid, child abusers and such won't help your cause.
Or maybe your goal is to call them names, i don't know.
I am just sayin'.
Personally, i would have a really hard time throwing a party when someone dies. It needs to be a convicted killer or something, i don't know. Anyway, wish you all the best. _________________ Plan like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this is how I look at your analogy. I don't blame every Catholic because kids have been molested in their church, but I definitely blame the leaders who protect the offenders and cover up their behavior.
The abuse of children is the worst thing about cults and religion, and psychological abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse. Forcing children to believe in superstition before they're mature enough to make a decision for themselves is disgusting.
Like I said, you need to do some research because you apparently don't seem to think Scientology is all that dangerous. To the contrary, it's one of the most sophisticated and evil scams ever invented. It's "celebrities" aren't just guilty by association, they're the most powerful people in the organization and are treated like royalty for bringing new marks into the cult. I have no sympathy whatsoever for them, dead or alive. Their wealth allowed them to climb very quickly to the high levels of "enlightenment", on the backs of the far less fortunate souls who'll spend their whole lives slaving away in the organization to achieve the same thing.
I'm proud to have had the opportunity to work with a great musician like Chick, but I didn't plan on being an evangelist for Scientology, so it pissed me off to see Scientology leaflets in every seat before the shows. I don't believe music should be used to indoctrinate the audience into a cult.
Woody Allen fucked up his family - celebrity Scientologists have fucked up thousands of families. I'd only use the names Hitler or Manson to rebut a ridiculous statement like "we're all entitled to our beliefs". Obviously there are people throughout history who've invented beliefs and causes which are pure evil, and L. Ron Hubbard was one of them. There's a reason Germany has been trying for years to ban Scientology - they know the dangers of cults more than anyone, and they see the connection even if you don't. Do you know why Scientology, a multi-million dollar for-profit business, doesn’t pay a penny in taxes? Again, do some research.
Telling people what I think about cults and their leaders does help my cause, because if one person reads this and it influences them to stay away from Scientology, I'll have done something to make the world a better place.
I'll end by saying that since you're not from the US, you may not be aware of all the horrific things Rush Limbaugh did during his time on Earth - his death is a landmark in the fight against racism, misogyny and homophobia. Add Trump losing the election and there's a lot to party about.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this is how I look at your analogy. I don't blame every Catholic because kids have been molested in their church, but I definitely blame the leaders who protect the offenders and cover up their behavior.
The abuse of children is the worst thing about cults and religion, and psychological abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse. Forcing children to believe in superstition before they're mature enough to make a decision for themselves is disgusting.
Like I said, you need to do some research because you apparently don't seem to think Scientology is all that dangerous. To the contrary, it's one of the most sophisticated and evil scams ever invented. It's "celebrities" aren't just guilty by association, they're the most powerful people in the organization and are treated like royalty for bringing new marks into the cult. I have no sympathy whatsoever for them, dead or alive. Their wealth allowed them to climb very quickly to the high levels of "enlightenment", on the backs of the far less fortunate souls who'll spend their whole lives slaving away in the organization to achieve the same thing.
I'm proud to have had the opportunity to work with a great musician like Chick, but I didn't plan on being an evangelist for Scientology, so it pissed me off to see Scientology leaflets in every seat before the shows. I don't believe music should be used to indoctrinate the audience into a cult.
Woody Allen fucked up his family - celebrity Scientologists have fucked up thousands of families. I'd only use the names Hitler or Manson to rebut a ridiculous statement like "we're all entitled to our beliefs". Obviously there are people throughout history who've invented beliefs and causes which are pure evil, and L. Ron Hubbard was one of them. There's a reason Germany has been trying for years to ban Scientology - they know the dangers of cults more than anyone, and they see the connection even if you don't. Do you know why Scientology, a multi-million dollar for-profit business, doesn’t pay a penny in taxes? Again, do some research.
Telling people what I think about cults and their leaders does help my cause, because if one person reads this and it influences them to stay away from Scientology, I'll have done something to make the world a better place.
I'll end by saying that since you're not from the US, you may not be aware of all the horrific things Rush Limbaugh did during his time on Earth - his death is a landmark in the fight against racism, misogyny and homophobia. Add Trump losing the election and there's a lot to party about.
You might be right. All i know about scientology is they are a bunch of dum dums and their god is a galactic traveler. Maybe i underestimate how evil they are, i don't know. In Europe, at least not to my knowledge, we don't have such a thing. I have never been to the US, so i have never seen the impact that Scientology has on society.
I look at it this way, if you are so dumb as to go to the church of Scientology, you deserve to be abused by them. If you send your children, that is another story.
If there are illegal activities happening there, i am not sure why they haven't been busted by the police.
You tax office (IRS) also seem not like when people don't pay taxes.
Why haven't they lobbied against this church not paying taxes while running a business?
It all sounds like a giant conspiracy.
I realize that i might have given an opinion without having a lot of the facts.
I never met Chick and i have absolutely no idea what kind of a person he was.
Maybe liking someone's music is in a way making you believe you know them on some level. _________________ Plan like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
Scientology doesn't do anything illegal that I know of, but some of their members have been convicted of crimes. They're constantly involved in lawsuits, and there have been many allegations of physical abuse, blackmail and extortion against their top officials.
Their legal difficulties aren't important - what's important to know is that they have absolutely no problem with assimilating people into their cult, robbing them of their money, filling their minds with garbage, and separating them from their friends and loved ones. Their social hierarchy is solely based on who's spent the most money to achieve the top levels of their religion. If you had a loved one who joined them, it would definitely affect your relationship, and there's a good chance you'd never see that person again, even if it was a spouse or family member.
The reason they don't pay taxes is because they blackmailed high officials at the IRS, just as they blackmail anyone who decides to leave the cult. During "auditing", their word for brainwashing, they learn every bad thing their members have ever done and threaten to expose it if they try to leave.
It's painfully clear to me that you don't know much about Scientology, but have a great respect for Chick's music. I can relate to that, but I've learned that just because someone's a great musician, it doesn't mean they're playing with a full deck. Many famous artists are bat-shit crazy. I consider myself lucky - of all the people I've worked with during a 40 year career, I've only met a few of them.
Absolutely, and too many to count. The thing I loved the most about Chick was his positive attitude about playing - not at all into that "I sucked tonight" bullshit. Even when he had a night which wasn't one of his best, he’d never let it get him down. If there's ever a lesson I need to learn....
Also, his skills at communication and interaction with the people he's playing with were on such a high level that I really wasn't prepared for it at the time. It's unfortunate that I was set up on stage left, because I needed to look at my guitar neck which was in the opposite direction of the band. There was a disconnect there that could've been greatly improved if I was on the other side of the stage - another lesson learned. Also, we guitarists sometimes feel like we need to look at the neck more than we actually do, so I take the blame for those times when I could've been better at communicating.
It was a joy to listen to Chicks's intense rhythmic vocabulary, and learning to always expect the unexpected. Thank goodness Dave is a very solid drummer - not one of those guys who tries to obfuscate one and "stump the band". There were times when I got lost in the music because what those guys were doing rhythmically was above my level of understanding, but for the most part I knew where I was in the music and was blown away every night by Chick's amazing rhythms - hard to play a solo after that guy!
Unfortunately there were things about the music I didn't like - I was introduced to the band by the song "Silver Temple", which was reminiscent of Chick's earlier writing. When I finally heard the rest of the music we'd be playing I was disappointed because I realized this was one of his commercial projects. I had played in Jean-Luc Ponty's band for years before taking the gig with Chick, and Jean-Luc's music was looser and more fun to play. A lot of Chicks new music was played with programmed sequences, and that’s really not my thing - ask Kinsey.
Also, how the band looked to the audience was extremely important to Chick, which affected me very negatively. I was asked to do dance steps, freeze like a robot, walk out 20 feet to the edge of the stage to play my solos like a strutting rock star... I found the whole thing ridiculous. I told him that I don't play well when I do that because I hate my tone when I'm that far away from my rig - he said "your perception of what you sound like isn't as important as how the band looks to the audience", to which I replied "oh, I didn't know I was in a Vegas show band". That was the beginning of the end of our friendly relationship.
His sounds were almost 100% from Yamaha DX-7's, the most annoying synth ever made. After playing with real synth players, those sounds were like nails on a blackboard to me. My position on stage was next to John, and it's the only time in my career I've had to set up next to the bass player - it was difficult to hear myself, and also sometimes difficult to hear Chick because he was on the opposite side of the stage. Of course a simple monitor wedge would've solved both problems, but Chick's response was "we don't use wedges". The absence of logic was stunning to me, especially from such professional musicians.
Lastly, let's talk about sex! Chick told me not to engage in sexual activity with the female members of his audience because it "degrades the music".... and that was the end of the end! I can suck it up and take orders as well as the next guy, but that was, as Brad Pitt said in Inglorious Basterds, "somethin' I can't abide".
I'll end my story with what guitarist Peter Sprague told me. He's a longtime friend of Chick's who at that time had a much bigger jazz vocabulary than mine, and played with Chick for fun. He asked Chick why he wasn't chosen for the gig in the Elektric Band. Chick said "I don't need a virtuoso, I just need someone I can tell what to do". Ouch.
And now we're back to Scientology, and the times I was asked to watch "church movies" on the bus, in the hopes I'd be interested... WTF. We were touring with Wayne Shorter's band, and since Gary Willis was in his band, I was often allowed to ride on Wayne's bus where they were partying and drinking like normal musicians. Thank goodness for Wayne Shorter! Often the topic of conversation on Chick's bus was "Scientology vs. Christianity, John being a born-again Christian. Honestly I can't think of two things I have less use for. By the end of my short experience working with Chick Corea, I was never happier to be fired from a gig in my life. Sometimes the notes just don't make up for the other stuff.
I'm sure a lot of you can relate to working with someone you respect, but finding out there are negative aspects which come along with the opportunity. After my experience with Chick, playing in Joe Zawinul's band was great therapy for me. Not only was Joe one of my favorite composers of all time, but the experience of playing in a band with no cults, religions, or other 'weirdnesses" involved was incredibly refreshing.
Ending on a positive note, take a look a this video - what a motherfucker on the piano!!!!!!! One of the greatest of all time!!
You might be right. All i know about scientology is they are a bunch of dum dums and their god is a galactic traveler. Maybe i underestimate how evil they are, i don't know. In Europe, at least not to my knowledge, we don't have such a thing. I have never been to the US, so i have never seen the impact that Scientology has on society.
Petar, I suggest you (and everybody who'll read that) to watch the documentary "Going Clear: Scientology".
You have no idea what these people are capable of. They're not just dumb, this is really insane, you won't believe it. _________________ www.romainlabaye.com
Thanks for reminding me about that documentary Romain - I saw it too. I already knew a lot about Scientology, but that was even more nuts than I expected.
You and Petar used the word “dumb”, and that might describe some of those people, but a lot of them are intelligent and well educated, like many were in the Jim Jones cult - but they drank the Kool-Aid anyway. I’m sure people who discover Scientology see it as a harmless but expensive self-help group with logical solutions to life’s problems. That’s how it’s presented at first, but then shit gets crazy!
L. Ron was a third-rate science fiction writer and con-artist who said “ if you wanna make money, start a religion”, so he wrote the laughable story of Xenu the space god - I’ve seen better plots on Star Trek Voyager. Unfortunately, his followers don’t get to be enlightened by that story until they’ve been in the cult for years - it’s the “big revelation” they paid $300,000 to learn about. I guess after being brainwashed for that long, people will believe anything.
Now I need to go write impossible bass lines for you - but first I have to pray to the ancient space alien KOBA, who implanted his seeds into Earth women so they’d give birth to bass players. I’m learning about it for only $200 a day!
Now I need to go write impossible bass lines for you - but first I have to pray to the ancient space alien KOBA, who implanted his seeds into Earth women so they’d give birth to bass players. I’m learning about it for only $200 a day!
Joined: 14 Feb 2017 Posts: 133 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:45 pm Post subject:
Watched it today and it really struck me. Thanks for recommending it Romain. I wouldn't have thought it was that serious. I first became aware of it on this page and then read a little about it.
Petar, I didn't think we had such "churches" in Europe, but to my disappointment I found there are some. Strange thing is, to this day, no one I know in my country (Greece) ever mentioned scientology, which is a good thing I suppose. Seems like the monopoly of the Christian market holds strong, at least on the orthodox (eastern) side of the schism.
I also found "General" Travolta's argumentation about the cult talking about ending all wars in a full tactical outfit pretty funny in its absurdity. He looked like as if he learned to reproduce a fixed argument he heard somewhere.
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