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intervallicdesign
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 47
Location: earth
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 Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:15 am Post subject: A Guitar Supreme? |
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Anyone else heard this record yet? It came out on Mike Varney's label, and features some well-known players doing Coltrane tunes.
I was disappointed, as it seems like all the tunes were recorded at one time, and then the soloists came in and blew their loads during some overdubbing sessions, none of tracks really doing it for me except maybe the ones with Mike Stern on them.
Anyway, i was reading the new Vintage Guitar, and the guy gave the album a glowing review, so i was wondering what other people thought of it.
peace
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spencer0960
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Cleveland, OH (Denton, TX school)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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i just checked out the clips on towerrecords.com. HOW DARE FUCKING ASSHOLE ERIC JOHNSON EVEN ATTEMPT A SONG OFF OF A LOVE SUPREME. nobody should play a song off of that, its sacred. it was performed with such soul and such deep emotional meaning that ANYBODY playing it is just doing coltrane a huge injustice. and eric johnson doing it? are you kidding me? that was the most half assed attempt at a tribute ive ever heard. it does no justice to coltrane's legacy at all. and im surprised that it didnt take him a year to record each individual note at a time. how can he play a song like that when he doesnt improvise to begin with? im just appalled. im seriously surprised that larry coryell or mike stern didnt take a bat to his head.
i have no other opinion, but im sure that mike stern and larry coryell's cuts are ok. god damn eric johnson. just because you love A Love Supreme doesnt entitle you to record it without any of the intagibles that coltrane brought to the original. Im sure pretty much every single jazz artist ever loved that album and yet they recognized its sacred territory. god damnit. im pissed off now. |
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intervallicdesign
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 47
Location: earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, i don't understand his attempt at that tune either, although i don't think i'm as upset about it as you seem to be 
I actually really like Eric Johnson's playing, but this sounded like he took a copy of the progression home, wrote out a solo, practiced it, and then recorded it. I don't have anything against that per se (although i'd much rather hear someone improvise), but i don't think that form of soloing has anything relevant to do with Coltrane, or jazz in general.
Just my 2 cents.
peace
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Mr. Mike
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Myersville,Md.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: A Guitar Supreme |
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| Wow--all this anger----I just got it from Audiophile Imports and I've listened to about 3/4 of it today.I like it alot what i've heard so far.I'm always happy with stuff from Tone Center. Not applicable to this topic but I also picked up the new Jeff Berlin.Very cool.It's a trio with Jeff and Dan Gotlieb(sp?) and Richard Drexler.Drexler plays piano and upright bass and Toot Thielmans guests on one tune.A wonderful cd. |
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Mr. Mike
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Myersville,Md.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:01 am Post subject: A Guitar Supreme |
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| Wow--all this anger----I just got it from Audiophile Imports and I've listened to about 3/4 of it today.I like it alot what i've heard so far.I'm always happy with stuff from Tone Center. Not applicable to this topic but I also picked up the new Jeff Berlin.Very cool.It's a trio with Jeff and Dan Gotlieb(sp?) and Richard Drexler.Drexler plays piano and upright bass and Toot Thielmans guests on one tune.A wonderful cd. |
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James
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:08 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by James on Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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spencer0960
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Cleveland, OH (Denton, TX school)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Ive heard the Branford version. While the good brother marsalis plays it well and its burns, I still hold it sacred.
Im still outraged. Ive settled down a bit, but it's still wrong. someone should have adressed this prior to recording. mike stern and larry coryell shoulda sat him down and explained the rules to him. there are some coltrane tunes that are more than acceptable. he had a cache of tunes that he woulda playe real nice (blue train, for example, wouldve been a good choice). but something like resolution taken at half speed and given a wankfest treatment is a disservice to one of the greatest musical statements ever made.
Coltrane is my god. I worship at his altar. I give him offerings of broken strings and missed countdown and satellite changes in an effort to reach musical enlightenment that he achieved. I understand the meaning behind A Love Supreme and what inspired him. Despite being agnostic, I understand his devotion and love for a higher power and appreciate his spiritual quest. A Love Supreme goes beyond notes and chords. It's Coltrane bearing his soul. Apparantly EJ missed this completly. And its that ignorance that pisses me off so much. |
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UncleSalty
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| spencer0960 wrote: | Im still outraged. Ive settled down a bit, but it's still wrong. someone should have adressed this prior to recording. mike stern and larry coryell shoulda sat him down and explained the rules to him. there are some coltrane tunes that are more than acceptable. he had a cache of tunes that he woulda playe real nice (blue train, for example, wouldve been a good choice). but something like resolution taken at half speed and given a wankfest treatment is a disservice to one of the greatest musical statements ever made.
Coltrane is my god. I worship at his altar. I give him offerings of broken strings and missed countdown and satellite changes in an effort to reach musical enlightenment that he achieved. I understand the meaning behind A Love Supreme and what inspired him. Despite being agnostic, I understand his devotion and love for a higher power and appreciate his spiritual quest. A Love Supreme goes beyond notes and chords. It's Coltrane bearing his soul. Apparantly EJ missed this completly. And its that ignorance that pisses me off so much. |
I doubt that Mike & Larry had a chance to sit EJ down because I imagine all three of them flew in their parts, something not uncommon with these kind of projects. The fact that EJ overdubbed his parts probably explains the lack of interaction on the track. Did he even choose this track? I imagine it was probably recorded and then offered to him. Of course, he could have refused to do it but I don't think the slowed down feel has much to do with him.
I can understand your outrage when someone covers a piece of music that you love and fails to do it justice - anybody remember Michael Bolton's version of Sitting On The Dock Of The Bay? Personally, I found Frank Gambale's happy jazz version of Naima far more egregious than EJ's Resolution. For someone ostensibly far more fluent in the jazz language than Johnson, he shows none of the sensitivity and reserve that is exemplified in Trane's original. As with EJ, I imagine it has a lot to do with the backing track he was given. Would I care if I wasn't familiar with the original? Probably not.
However, I have heard other performers do great versions of Naima and I love stumbling through it myself. Most versions do not have the resonance of Trane's version. How could they? But there are some versions that are still beautiful music in their own right. A Love Supreme is an incredible work and that's the reason it continues to inspire successive generations. But Resolution and the other parts of the cycle are also plain good tunes that can inspire great work by other people. James mentions Branford and I also really enjoyed Bass Desires' version. I wouldn't want to be deprived of that in order to prevent substandard versions. And lots not get too precious here - the head to Resolution is essentially lifted from a Monk tune.
Having said that, anybody heard Gary Bartz' disco Giant Steps? |
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spencer0960
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Cleveland, OH (Denton, TX school)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, I know that Larry and Mike probably didnt see EJ record it, it was more of a joke than anything. But I do think that EJ chose to record that song. I find it hard to believe that mike varney would just hand out backing tracks to songs without letting the artist have any input. And i have hard time believing that "Aebersold-esque" backing tracks were just doled out.
I would like to hope that anyone contributing to this album would just fly in a solo for a tribute to one of the greatest musicians of all time. |
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UncleSalty
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| spencer0960 wrote: | Yea, I know that Larry and Mike probably didnt see EJ record it, it was more of a joke than anything. But I do think that EJ chose to record that song. I find it hard to believe that mike varney would just hand out backing tracks to songs without letting the artist have any input. And i have hard time believing that "Aebersold-esque" backing tracks were just doled out.
I would like to hope that anyone contributing to this album would just fly in a solo for a tribute to one of the greatest musicians of all time. |
I wasn't implying that the tracks were Aebersold-esque but I think Jeff Richman's (the project's executive producer) aesthetic has more to do with how everything sounds than any one of the individual artists', whether it's EJ or Gambale or Stern. He's obviously going for a lightly funky/groovy take of the tunes, which doesn't always work. For me, anyway.
As for not flying in their contributions, I'm sure some of them might have been there for recording but it's hard to imagine everyone made it, especially people who live on the other side of the US, like Stern & EJ. I mean, Holdsworth lives in California and he still flew in all his contributions to the Truth In Shredding record. I agree with you that that's sad on a tribute to a musician so much about 'the moment' like Coltrane but it doesn't necessarily mean the contributions are worthless crap. |
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