Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 4:14 pm Post subject: Ever have any hand problems?
Hey Scott, I keep hassling guitarwank about this, but your buddies are ignoring me!
I'm wondering if you've ever had any injuries or RSIs like carpal tunnel or tendonitis that have hurt your playing? How did you deal with them? Do you do any kinds of stretches or stuff to warm up / cool down or give your hands and arms a break?
I've had tendonitis in my fretting hand since I was a teenager because I read about all these guys practicing for 8 hours a day and thought i could do it too. My best solution so far has been to flip the guitar around and play the other way, but it's a pain in the ass.
I've had a few problems but luckily they didn't affect my playing. I got a very bad case of tennis elbow from working on my house - I couldn't eat with my right hand for almost two months, but I was able to play because my hand is fairly stationary when I play. I was amazed by how hard it is to eat left-handed - lots of food on the floor.
Another time I woke up one morning while on tour with HBC, and I had no feeling whatsoever in the first three fingers of my left hand. I could stick a pin in there and couldn't feel anything. It took a few nights but I was able to get used to using my left hand without feeling anything. It took about a month for it to completely go away, and the doctor said I just pinched a nerve while sleeping - it never happened again.
I know people who have extreme problems with carpal tunnel, tendonitis, and other nerve problems in their arms and hands. What I've learned is physical therapy helps the most, but apparently some therapists are better than others, so you need to find one who's right for you.
Sometimes while recording I play something many times to get it right - if that includes a bend, my hand will start hurting and I've had to take a few days off to get back to normal. That's just me being stupid and anal because the first take was probably fine. I get angry at myself for doing that and I'm trying to correct that bad habit.
I've heard Holdsworth soaks his hands in warm water for a couple mins before he starts playing. Can't argue with HIS success but I would think proper warming up technique is essential. I know with my own playing I really have to watch my pinky finger and make sure it's warmed up before I ask too much of it especially in the speed department. The other thing is proper hand alignment too, if you look at a typical guitarists wrist while playing, it can be bent at almost 90 degrees or more and that really isn't good which is why I wear my guitar higher up than most guys. It looks WAY cooler down low but I can't play what I want to with it so low...
I've heard Holdsworth soaks his hands in warm water for a couple mins before he starts playing. Can't argue with HIS success but I would think proper warming up technique is essential. I know with my own playing I really have to watch my pinky finger and make sure it's warmed up before I ask too much of it especially in the speed department. The other thing is proper hand alignment too, if you look at a typical guitarists wrist while playing, it can be bent at almost 90 degrees or more and that really isn't good which is why I wear my guitar higher up than most guys. It looks WAY cooler down low but I can't play what I want to with it so low...
Best,
Chris
yes, the wrist position is a HUGE thing. I didn't know any better when I was 15 and that's what caused my tendonitus. I was practicing that paganini caprice like 3 hours a day because I wanted to play like yngwie and had to bend my wrist 90 degrees to do the stretches - and it ruined my hand. the other warning sign was hand fatigue and pain, which i foolishly played through until it hurt massively all the time. spent 8 weeks in physical therapy to get the inflammation down and it still nags me if i play more than 20 minutes at a time.
i'm a natural lefty, so i just started learning righty a few years ago and it seems to be not an issue any more. i figure if django can do it with 3 fingers and pat martino can do it after his brain surgery, i can probably play backwards
I also warm up my hands before a gig, either with a space heater, hand dryer, hot water - whatever's around. I hate going on stage with cold hands and sometimes it's even painful. I used to not warm up before a gig, but now I play for at least an hour before I go on stage, and though it doesn't help me phrase or play better, I seem to be making less mistakes and I can get to my ideas easier.
Studying jazz i had an important test and was going to play Donna Lee amongst others. I didn't allow myself to stop practicing it untill i really could play it in (Aebersold) tempo. That was quite stupid because it caused a big painfull problem in my picking hand and wrist. My teacher urged me to stop practicing untill the test and thankfully the hand got better in time and even the test went well. Lesson learned!
15 years ago all of a sudden the tip of my left little finger started producing a lot of callus that i just couldn't get rid of. It caused the callus covered tip loosing all the necessary feeling you need to place the finger correct on the fretboard. Being in a long tour at that time i couldn't afford to stop playing so i started using my little finger by omitting the tip and only using the sound flesh around it night after night. Totally unnatural and crazy too, and it caused big pain in my upper back between the shoulders.
After the tour i went to the doctor. It seemed to be not callus but a tumor (not a bad one, don't know how that's called in english)! I had it removed and you won't believe what came out of that fingertip: a marble sized amount of fleshlike tissue. Thinking about it still gives me goosebumps.
There is a psychological thing to hand issues also.
I realized this when I was at a Satriani gig and was kind of anxious about if could I every play at my old level again after having left hand problems. As I was watching the gig I wondered how the hell does his hands tolerate all that legato and bending. Then when I was clapping my left hand started to hurt from the shoulder to the fingers quite much.
Good thing was that I realized that pain is very much a mental thing. It can hurt easily even if you are alright already. The fear kind of amplifies the sensations I think. Plus and if you believe all the net crap "if you hurt your hand once, it's not gonna be ever the same" no wonder it starts hurting very early.
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Ever have any hand problems?
My 2 cents on this.
I had pain in the left hand so bad, that I bailed from being a musician. But 10 years after it turned out that issue is with my NECK, not left hand. It took ONE MONTH to fix my "hand" problem just because one of doctors cared enough for my neck issues and made me treat them in a proper way. Now I'm practicing for few hours daily and try not to think that I lost 10 years of my life playing for 30 minutes a day because my "hand" hurt so bad.
The bottom line is: sometimes musicians' problems with hands are NOT hand problems.
To give more insight for those who interested: I gave up on musician's career about 10 years ago, when I got terrible pain in my left hand after going on territory which is obviously not for me: Holdsworth's chords. After few month of daily practicing for two or three hours on those the pain has gotten so bad, that I didn't play for two years at all. Well, we may count playing one finger lines about a year later as practicing, but no, it wasn't really. The pain was intolerable. I didn't use left hand like almost completely for about a year - it was wrapped in cloth to keep it warm, and I did my best not to use it to avoid the terrible pain below elbow and up to the fingers.
So a year of medicine, massages, dialy warm baths with sea salt for the hand, medical procedures and lots of different doctors to visit to find right doctor. No luck. I had my diagnosis and treatment - and it didn't work. So I was weak and I gave up. Ten years later I moved to another country and went to the doctor with my yearly back issues (I work in IT these days, so I sit too much for many years). He made me do a lot of expensive tests (and it all paid off in the end) and assigned some treatment, including magnetic procedures etc.
And boom - in a month my pains GONE. Like almost completely. I still feel a bit of discomfort when I practice for 6-8 hours on weekends, but man, three hours of non-stop playing are nothing to me - like I'm 22 years old again!
I'm happy and grateful beyond any words - despite I'm not going to be a professtion musician anyway now (which, according to Scott, is a good thing! ), I am a musician once again.
So if anyone reading this, who happen to be stupid unlucky like me and tries to fix his hand by "hands" doctors - go to few osteopathic physicians to get checked by them and hear their opinion. Find THE best physician you can and make him take a look at your back and neck very carefully. Find professional masseuse (I'd suggest hearing doctor of osteopathic on this one first - he may say that you don't need that until you do some other treatment). As I learned in a hard and painful way - sometimes this is THE issue. We all sit a lot while practicing, and we often sit in bad positions that hurt our spines (leave along moving combo amps on a daily basis).
And good luck to all those who fight hand pains - I hope you'll get better soon!
Thanks a lot for you message Anton! Very encouraging. Losing one's playing ability is almost as bad as losing own sex organs. Or in some cases, it's even worse.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Ever have any hand problems?
Anton wrote:
My 2 cents on this.
So if anyone reading this, who happen to be stupid unlucky like me and tries to fix his hand by "hands" doctors - go to few osteopathic physicians to get checked by them and hear their opinion. Find THE best physician you can and make him take a look at your back and neck very carefully. Find professional masseuse (I'd suggest hearing doctor of osteopathic on this one first - he may say that you don't need that until you do some other treatment). As I learned in a hard and painful way - sometimes this is THE issue. We all sit a lot while practicing, and we often sit in bad positions that hurt our spines (leave along moving combo amps on a daily basis).
And good luck to all those who fight hand pains - I hope you'll get better soon!
That's really interesting! some of the best relief I have gotten has been from Rolfing - which is kind of like a deep tissue massage. Can you share any more about what your treatments were like for your back? I saw an acupuncture guy a few months ago that said my problems were all in my lower back and to fix my posture before coming back, I also spend all day on the computer writing software which probably isn't helping.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Ever have any hand problems?
e123ms wrote:
I have gotten has been from Rolfing - which is kind of like a deep tissue massage. Can you share any more about what your treatments were like for your back? I saw an acupuncture guy a few months ago that said my problems were all in my lower back and to fix my posture before coming back, I also spend all day on the computer writing software which probably isn't helping.
cheers
Hey man,
I was taking acupuncture procedures every year for many years in a row, it really helped with my back. But it didn't actually fix all the issues that we addressed once I got proper treatment.
So to make long story short:
1. So I went to osteopat first. He listened to my story, said it's very common and most likely ths problem is in the neck. So he sent me to neurologist.
2. Neurologist made me do tomography for my head, neck and back. It costed me some as you may imagine but is was totally worth it - all the doctors I visited after that were happy to have this detailed information about my body. It really helped. Also I had ultrasound diagnostics and some additional computer scan for the head.
3. They both diagnosed me using this data and assigned this treatment:
- 10 procedures of magnetic therapy for the neck (not lower back in my case)
- 10 procedures of electrical therapy for the neck (sorry, I'm not a native speaker - have no idea how it is called in English)
- some pills, don't really remember which and I guess it will be completely different for you
- massage
- swimming
4. I did those 20 procedures and pills and it helped right away. So I found a masseuse who's working with our Olympics team for 10 procedures for the whole back (I live in Belarus now). That added to my recovery a lot.
5. I went to special clinic with specialty is treatment like acupuncture. As you can guess - 10 more acupuncture procedures for the whole back. Again, all computer scans really helped everyone to understand what's wrong with my health and how to treat me.
6. I do simple exercises every day, like pushups and such. My doctors agree that I don't need gym in any nearest future - only simplest exercises, but the key is to actually DO them Now I'm looking at yoga, but didn't start practice it yet.
So about two months later I'm almost healthy again "Almost" because I still have back issues, neck issues and, of course, left hand issues, but to a MUCH lesser degree then ever!
Next steps are:
1. repeat massage each 6 months
2. repeat acupuncture each few months.
Yeah, keeping back in a good shape cost some money, but man, it improves my personal "quality of life" A LOT.
Hope this helps! Let me know if you need any more details on anything.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Ever have any hand problems?
Anton wrote:
e123ms wrote:
I have gotten has been from Rolfing - which is kind of like a deep tissue massage. Can you share any more about what your treatments were like for your back? I saw an acupuncture guy a few months ago that said my problems were all in my lower back and to fix my posture before coming back, I also spend all day on the computer writing software which probably isn't helping.
cheers
Hey man,
I was taking acupuncture procedures every year for many years in a row, it really helped with my back. But it didn't actually fix all the issues that we addressed once I got proper treatment.
So to make long story short:
1. So I went to osteopat first. He listened to my story, said it's very common and most likely ths problem is in the neck. So he sent me to neurologist.
2. Neurologist made me do tomography for my head, neck and back. It costed me some as you may imagine but is was totally worth it - all the doctors I visited after that were happy to have this detailed information about my body. It really helped. Also I had ultrasound diagnostics and some additional computer scan for the head.
3. They both diagnosed me using this data and assigned this treatment:
- 10 procedures of magnetic therapy for the neck (not lower back in my case)
- 10 procedures of electrical therapy for the neck (sorry, I'm not a native speaker - have no idea how it is called in English)
- some pills, don't really remember which and I guess it will be completely different for you
- massage
- swimming
4. I did those 20 procedures and pills and it helped right away. So I found a masseuse who's working with our Olympics team for 10 procedures for the whole back (I live in Belarus now). That added to my recovery a lot.
5. I went to special clinic with specialty is treatment like acupuncture. As you can guess - 10 more acupuncture procedures for the whole back. Again, all computer scans really helped everyone to understand what's wrong with my health and how to treat me.
6. I do simple exercises every day, like pushups and such. My doctors agree that I don't need gym in any nearest future - only simplest exercises, but the key is to actually DO them Now I'm looking at yoga, but didn't start practice it yet.
So about two months later I'm almost healthy again "Almost" because I still have back issues, neck issues and, of course, left hand issues, but to a MUCH lesser degree then ever!
Next steps are:
1. repeat massage each 6 months
2. repeat acupuncture each few months.
Yeah, keeping back in a good shape cost some money, but man, it improves my personal "quality of life" A LOT.
Hope this helps! Let me know if you need any more details on anything.
I played 10 years nonstop 8-10 hours per day.
I developed carpal tunnel and tennis elbow as well.
It was so painful i could not open a bottle.
I stopped playing for couple of years and now i play 15 minutes a week !
If i don't do anything now i do not feel pain but if i try to workout (lifting small weights) or anything else demanding, elbow and wrist pain is well present. Also sometimes couple of fingers get numb for couple of minutes.
Apparently not playing doesn't fix it, tried couple of things but no success.
If i could go back 15 years ago i would never start playing because it's not worth ruining my body. _________________ Plan like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
I think proper warm up exercises and stretching are SUPER important when playing ANY instrument. I played 8-10 hours a day when I was younger and I got REAL good REAL fast but I took frequent breaks and made sure my hand position was ideal, which meant when I stood UP to play, I had to strap my guitar a tad lower than Tom Morello...! I have short fingers...
I think proper warm up exercises and stretching are SUPER important when playing ANY instrument. I played 8-10 hours a day when I was younger and I got REAL good REAL fast but I took frequent breaks and made sure my hand position was ideal, which meant when I stood UP to play, I had to strap my guitar a tad lower than Tom Morello...! I have short fingers...
Chris
I also thought i was pretty good when i was 17.
Now when i hear old recordings of myself i hear many notes and little sense. _________________ Plan like you are going to live forever, live like you are going to die tomorrow.
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