Scott Henderson Discussion

[tribalfusion]

Has anyone read Billy Cobham's new biography "Six Days at Ronnie Scott's" where he expresses some extremely harsh words about John? At one point he says that without him and Rick Laird, Mahavishnu would have been a "completely atonal free jazz band. McLaughlin had no sense of time, always getting ahead..."

I found this very surprising and bizarre. He says it not only about John in the original Mahavishnu Orchestra but also makes disparaging comments about the later 70s, 80s and their onetime reunion at Montreux in 2011 saying that John always rushed and that Billy had to make up for his playing.

I wondered if anyone here had any thoughts on this? It's especially strange when one recalls that it was McLaughlin who first instructed Billy about odd time and that John's whole Indian rhythm bag is very precise indeed.


Scott, I know you know both Billy and John. If you feel comfortable chiming in, I'd be curious to know what you make of this and whether you have heard comments from musicians you respect which didn't make sense to you.

Happy New Year!

[Scott Henderson]

I think it's just the usual sour grapes when bands split up. There were some hard feelings toward John because he never released the band's third album, and I don't blame him because compared with the first two it wasn't very good. I think that may be why he left to form the second version of the band, and thank goodness he did or we wouldn't have Apocalypse, one of my favorite records.

I don't take it very seriously when musicians badmouth each other - we're all human and get pissed off at the people we work with, me included - especially with the Tribal Tech guys. We fought all the time but managed to stay together long enough to make some good records. I'm sure a band as amazing as the Mahavishnu Orchestra had the potential for a great third album, but maybe John wasn't willing to wait. Birds Of Fire is also one of my favorite records - that's a tough act to follow.

[daschwarjazz]

Sour grapes certainly has something to do with it, but honestly, Cobham’s statements are not completely without merit. While McLaughlin’s compositions are rhythmically complex, I’ve never personally thought that his early playing was particularly in the pocket. In the first Mahavishnu recordings, unison lines performed along with Hammer and Goodman are oftentimes borderline sloppy, and McLaughlin’s solos really don’t have that much of a connection with the underlying rhythms. However, I don’t really see this as a bad thing, as the overall effect is a chaotic world-about-to-end vibe that I love.

But let’s think about where John was coming from pre-Mahavisnu. One of his main jazz influences was Tal Farlow. As much of an important player Tal was, I’ve always thought that never had the best sense of time. John also listened to a lot of the early blues guitarists, and the one of the hallmarks of blues guitar phrasing is hanging around the outskirts of the beat as opposed to being right on it. So given John’s influences, it makes sense that his sense of time was a little skewed. Then let’s look at what kind of projects he was involved in early in his career. In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew with Miles Davis, Emergency! with Tony Williams, John’s own Extrapolation, Devotion, and My Goals Beyond recordings — all were largely free form in nature. So it makes sense that Cobham, who came from a tight military percussion background, would perhaps take issue with McLaughlin’s looser rhythmic sensibilities.

I actually think that McLaughlin’s time is better and tighter when on acoustic. Maybe it has something to do with the more percussive nature of the instrument, and the shorter note decay, but his work with Shakti and the Guitar Trio was pretty spot on rhythmically speaking.

[Scott Henderson]

John's playing has changed drastically from the old days, and for Billy to comment about his time doesn't make much sense because he hasn't played with John for 30 years. John's time, tone, and finesse on the guitar have grown light years beyond how he was playing with Billy. Also, playing in perfect time is necessary for certain styles, but many jazz musicians often float over the time and basically ignore it - Jimi Hendrix, Allan Holdsworth, and Wayne Shorter play a lot of rubato phrases which have nothing to do with the tempo of the song, and it sounds great. All blues players including myself, do that all the time. Playing everything in time is boring and I can't stand to listen to players who do it.